TB 303 din sync issue


#1

I have my 303 synced with the Pyramid via the midi out B din sync. It will play the pattern fine, but when I go to write a new pattern and go into pitch mode, the note sticks and I cannot exit pitch mode or do anything else for that matter.
If i unplug the din cable from the 303 or the Pyramid the 303 works as it should.

I have the din sync setting set to sync24 and to send clock set to play.

Is there something I’m missing? It seems the Pyramid is sending a clock signal that is always running.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks!


#2

the problem is the pyramid has both midi and dinsync out. and there is a constant voltage on the “reset/fill in” pin of dinsync (that a lot of devices don’t use)
the 303 however uses this, so to fix this you need to make a splitter cable to split dinsync and midi from the midi out B port. There is no software fix as the problem is hardware related.

For this reason I created a cable. In think Squarp should make mention of this on the website and/or provide cables for this. In any case, here you go, I hope this information is helpful to you.


#3

OK I see. That makes sense. I am just going to get a midi to din sync converter then.

Thanks for the reply… it was very helpful!


#4

Don’t do it… Midi to dinsync converters are never as good as a dedicated cable…
Have someone make a splitter cable for you, it will be cheaper and more stable clock.


#5

Can you be a little more specific about the cable? Is there a instructions somewhere on how to build one? or can I buy one?


#6

#7

Hello! Same problem here whit tr 909, start stop on pyramid don’t restart the pattern on 909 only continue… help please!


#8

@Dimaryp what more help do you need, the answer is here?

In case of the 909 you can just use MIDI sync instead of DIN sync anyway


#9

First version of 909, not so tight like the dyn sync…
May be you can post how to do the cable that you mean? Looking for buy the breakout box but isn’t in stock…
The only that I can thing is to make the breakout in the midi dyn sync wire whit a switch… is something like this what you mean? Thank you!


#10

@Dimaryp
About midi vs din on the 909: I have the first version of the 909 as well, connected with midi for either sync or notes from the pyramid. There’s a lot of vague statements on the internet about the clock fixes Roland did in the different OS versions of the 909. If I remember correctly it has to do with missing a clock pulse at the start, which happens very rarely.

Keep in mind the dinsync on the Pyramid is not perfect either with old rolands, there’s 2 ways to configure it:

  • non-constant clock: lets RUN and Clock signal go high at the same time, which will cause most old Roland gear to miss the first clock pulse (need at least 2ms gap in between for the CPU to catch it)
  • constant clock: just lets RUN go high on top of the clock, regardless of the clocks position (low or high, edge),this can randomly cause the issue you have with non-constant clock.
    When I say “old rolands” I mean 303/606/808. I haven’t really tested this with the 909 but it doubt it to be much different…

Anyhow, sorry for diverting. The point is that pin 4 and 5 may not be connected to your dinsync device.

You could just pull out / trim / cut those pins from a cheap midi / dinsync cable, that would work…
or get a cable where you can open the casing to cut it more safely and hidden


#11

I am eternally grateful to you, for the explanation and for the solution of cutting the pins of the cable that you mentioned.
Many years ago I bought the chip of version 4, but I never dared to weld it, anyway today I bought the midiclock+ so I already got the 909 go in syncro with the pyramid
Thank you so much for everything!


#12

I’ve been experimenting with DIN Sync myself lately using a TR-606, TR-808, TR-909, TB-303, MC-202 and others and I agree with what’s been shared here.

I have tried:

  1. A 1 Bar loop cycling through an MSQ-100 (midi in, sync out)

  2. Clocking through a CV.ODV and sending a pulse into Pamela’s New Workout for master clock, and then the ALM BusyCircuits breakout cable to provide din sync

  3. Pyramid Port B output set for din sync and a 5 wire 5 pin din cable.

  4. A Touchprone Midi to DinSync converter box to receive midi clock from the Pyramid and convert it internally to din sync clock.

  5. As above (Touchprone) breaking out to a hand made breakout din sync box (wired up in a kit box) and then syncing multiple din sync devices.

CONCLUSIONS SO FAR:

A. Most notable with the 606, 808 and 909 that din sync is much much better, snappier, and more responsive than midi (where available)

B. Based on this, my further efforts in performance or just composing/experimenting in the studio have been to simply rely on din sync completely for these older instruments and break out the converted midi clock to multiple din sync cables and just do it this way.

I’m not sure why the internal din sync of the pyramid isn’t as stable, but it doesn’t actually feel much different from the midi clock. I also wondered if I was doing something wrong.

Din Sync: Sync 24 is set
Din Sync is set to start with start, and stop when stopped

But the best results have been from using an external box to convert from midi clock to din sync. All of the pesky start, struggle or drift, and re start and hope for the best in front of a couple thousand people problems are gone as the result. So I’m going to carry on this way…


#13

More about this:

The problem has become painfully obvious when working with a TR-808 or TR-606 for me.
Indeed the Pyramid is attempting to do both midi and din sync at the same time, and sadly this causes problems with some vintage gear. As has been very nicely noted above, we get a nice stutter of the first step in a sequence in certain modes of devices (Example: Manual Play of the TR-808) and the immediate thought is something like “What the hell? My 808 is broken!”

Not so (hopefully.) Again, as has already been noted in this thread, some of the midi data is hitting the reset because of the differences in midi sync vs din sync.

One solution is to prepare a cable or score yourself a cable that’s strictly din sync. This will prevent the midi clock information from messing with the din sync.

Another solution is easier: Turn off the midi output of output B on the Pyramid and just use it as a din sync output port.

These solutions both work, but the problem is that then you don’t get to use midi on port B at all.

Work arounds for this:

  1. Get yourself a midi to din sync converter
    This will filter the midi clock info and deliver din sync to what needs it, but it won’t dampen the other possible midi uses of port B. If you want to use this with a thru box to better connect more devices, then you can connect the converter box at any point down the line.

  2. Check out the replacement output port
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302582080287
    This has ended, but maybe there are others. I don’t know.

Vintage Roland Gear

Wherever possible, I would prefer to use din sync with the TR-808, 909, 303, 606 rather than using midi (where available) or even over converting midi to din sync.
In my opinion sync is just rock solid, and it doesn’t matter which version of the 909 firmware you have when using din sync.

So for me, using port B and breaking that clock out with my home made port expander is how I’m using it. So I switch off midi and just use port B as a din sync output clock.


#14

Another solution is easier: Turn off the midi output of output B on the Pyramid and just use it as a din sync output port.

These solutions both work, but the problem is that then you don’t get to use midi on port B at all.

No, this does not work
You cannot fully disable the midi functionality, making the dinsync port useless when connected to a 303 without a special cable.

Jean from Squarp confirmed back in 2016:

It’s not possible to set the PIN5 to 0V, as it’s internally connected to +5V (hardware connexion). I’m sorry for this but it’s the same thing for all MIDI devices that outputs both MIDI and Dinsync on the same port.

So I advise you to use a special dinsync connector, bypassing the pin 4 and 5.