Sending CC higher than 119?


#1

Hey, i am trying to switch local control off on my minibrute; to do so I have to send a CC message of 0 to CC 122, but pyramid only goes up to 119. Why is that? Is there any way for me to use pyramid to switch local on/off on my minibrute?

I’ll probably just plug it into my laptop to do it for now, but the 119 limit seems weird and arbitrary to me, what’s up with that?


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#2

Also out of curiosity, does anyone know of lightweight apps for sending midi on a Mac? I ended up having download the flstudio beta just to send a CC note to my minibrute to disable local control

edit: and it looks like THAT didnt even work because the setting got reset, presumably when i turned the minibrute on and off


#3

for anyone who finds this on google, I got this answer from Squarp:

My Question: is there a reason that CC step mode doesn’t go above 119? I would very much like to send CC 122 to my MiniBrute in order to toggle Local Control, but it doesn’t seem possible right now with Pyramid.

Their Answer: It’s a limitation, Channel Mode Messages (CC120 to 127) can’t be programmed, sorry.


#4

I was bugging MFB to implement local on/off in Midi on the Dominion-1, but that’s good to know that it isn’t even accessible in Pyramid. Thanks for the update.


#5

pretty annoying, imo


#6

I feel you. Any hints why it’s not possible?


#7

no, that’s all they said. i’ll ask for clarification and update this if i hear anything else


#8

120-127 CC messages are “channel mode messages”. They behave differently from other (“control change”) messages. They are not channel specific.
If you want to learn more about the MIDI spec then: https://www.midi.org/specifications/item/the-midi-1-0-specification.

Hope this helps!


#9

Thanks! that’s pretty interesting, tbh I’ve been looking for that spec for a while I guess I never found it somehow.

They are not channel specific.

What do you mean by this? the spec says:

Mode messages are recognized only when sent on the Basic Channel to which the receiver is assigned,
regardless of the current mode. /snip/ Mode messages can only be transmitted and received on an
instrument’s Basic Channel.


#10

eg all notes off (cc123) turns off all notes (regardless of which channel note on came on) , and you only send it on the ‘basic channel’


#11

that doesn’t seem to be correct though. according to the spec, “All Notes Off” sends note off for all notes on a single midi channel. It explicitly says not to use All Notes Off when omni mode is enabled or it will end the notes on all midi channels:

Receivers should ignore an All Notes Off message while Omni is on (Modes 1 & 2). For example, if a
receiver gets an All Notes Off from a sequencer that inserts such messages whenever all keys are
released on a track, and two tracks were recorded on such a sequencer (even on different MIDI
channels), the All Notes Off message would cut off sustaining notes recorded on the other track.

or maybe i am misunderstanding what you said? I also am not sure what kind of channels there are besides “basic channel”. Is basic channel just the channel I set my instrument to? Like I have minibrute on 1, micromonsta on 2, etc.


#12

for channel modes 1-3 , yes you have only the basic channel … where things change is for channel mode 4, at this point you have the basic channel and then voices channels.
mode 4, as i understand it, is a bit like the proposed MPE standard… in fact, some are saying MPE is not even necessary because mode 4 covers most requirements.
so yeah, in mode 4 , i would totally expect a cc123 on the basic channel to kill all the notes!

anyway, forgetting notes off , as perhaps a bad/confusing example, look at some of the others:

CC122 turns off local control… i.e. you keyboard is detached from the synth engine, nothing to do with midi channel.
CC123-127, this combination can affect how channels are handled (e.g. mode 4) means that sending this on the basic channel, affects how the other channels behave.

so , getting back to the pyramid and original question…
the point is these ‘cc’ are more about how the midi protocol/synth works , rather than being a ‘synth parameter’, so it doesn’t really make much sense to modulate them… as the pyramid might be using them anyway as part of the ‘UI’ (e.g. it sends all-notes-off (cc123), and all-sound-off(cc120) when you press stop)


#13

It means this is to change how the instrument works, not the voices. As an example I dont really see a practical reason to automate local control mid song. And Ive yet to come across a sequencer that does this…

As an extra, developers would need to create an UI for it. Because these messages are only accepted on the basic channel, no like regular CCs. And what would be the gain? A lot of instruments dont even respond to these. Thats the MIDI “standard” for you.
And you cant use these CCs just to modulate what you want, they are reserved.

This is not a Squarp thing, its a MIDI thing. :slight_smile:

Hope this helps :wink:


#14

Thanks guys, that was informative!


#15

And that is one of the woes of owning a MiniBrute. I’ve set up a profile on one of my controllers to send channel change messaged to my MiniBrute, but even then it truly is a bitch to do. Changing the MiniBrute’s channel means changing the channel the controller is sending on too. Sounds like a nothing problem, but try not pulling your hair out the first time you forget what channel the 'Brute is on.

I’m thinking I need some sort of whiteboard on the synth to write it’s current MIDI channel so I remember what I’ve got it on instead of saying “okay MiniBrute you are channel 4 and that’s it forever” as even with a controller to send it stuff like channel assignment, if you don’t send it on the correct channel it won’t work. Why did I buy a synth with no display?


#16

yeah, the minibrute is kind of frustrating in that way. it seems like they intended for everyone to have it hooked up to their laptop or something, which seems a bit silly on an “all analog” synth like that. as far as midi channels go, i didn’t even know you could change the channel without a laptop so i’ve just left it on channel 1 and put everything else on the other channels. but i’m also sending to fewer than 16 instruments :wink:

i have to test it out, but i think my midipal can send cc 122, so i’m gonna try putting that in the chain so I can use the minibrute with local off.


#17

i agree, you wouldn’t necessarily automate local control mid song, but just having a way to send 122 to disable local control on a synth that makes it super difficult to do so (like the minibrute) would be nice


#18

Arturia’s stuff is too expensive for what you actually get… just the fake wooden cheeks should serve as a warning.

BTW not even Ableton sends CCs higher than 119…