Pyramid MIDI knob control limits

I’m interested in getting the Pyramid to sequence various hardware synths - but one of the things i need is lots of control over CC parameters particularly on something like the Moog Sirin where you have a ton of important parameters that can only be controlled via MIDI (usually the Sirin software) and a ton of shift functions.

from what i understand in the pyramid manual, i can only control 7 parameters per track - 5 via knobs and 2 via XY pad?

what i ideally want is something like on the Korg SQ64 where there’s a control mode where each pad can be assigned to a CC control that you can either toggle on and off on the pad, or else manipulate the values with a knob

or else something where you can have various sets of 5 knobs that you can use in the same project on the same track

from what i can tell the pyramid does not do this, and i’d have to get like a faderfox on top of it for that type of control?

for general workflow, how would you compare the pyramid to an elektron? seems similar but with more polyphony and those cool midi FX.

also is there any difference in screen display quality in mk2 vs mk3?

what do you mean by control?

you can sequence as many CCs are you like,
but indeed theres only 5 encoders , and the track pad. (x/y)

you can set the CC per track… so depending on which track is active, it’ll send different CC.
OR the encoders can work in ‘global mode’, so then you are restricted to 5 CC.
(see Settings->Misc->assign type = per track, per project)

note: the encoder can also be assigned to pyramid FX parameters as well, so bare in mind, you might be using them for that.

but at the end of the day, the Pyramid is primarily a sequencer, not a controller…
so indeed, you may want to supplement it with a dedicated , if you need extra hands-on control.

completely different :wink:

its automation is more similar to the a DAW (automation lane) , than elektron’s p-lock.
way more fx, longer tracks, more control over timing…

I like the sequencing on Elektron (I have an OT) , but its very different in focus to the Pyramid.
Elektron’s sequencers strength is its intrinsically linked to the sound engine (midi is more a ‘bonus’),
however, its also very pattern focused… shown by its 64 step limit.

the Pyramid is a bit closer to a daw in many ways, though very different in others!

probably the better question is…
why are you looking at the Pyramid? what is it that you need it to do that the Elektron can’t?

I don’t think so… at least dont remember anyone mentioning it?!

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a lot of moogs come with 14-bit midi which the squarp doesn’t do. if you really want a control surface for your moog that exposes all of its bits you’ll probably need to find something that has higher resolution than normal midi. same goes with any devices that use nrpns to get higher resolution controls or to expose more than 128 controls, elektrons fall into this category, so do dsi instruments usually. I’ve only ever wanted more resolution on my moog though (i have a subsequent, so your sirin might do things differently, you can rtfm to find out).

yeah the step and motion record CC changes per step are great - but i mean maniupulate the CCs in real time via knobs and pads to set up my synth. the sirin has about 15 knobs, but then has 15 more shift functions, and then has several important controls that you can’t access without an app or external controller like key tracking, glide on legato.

i’d love to be able to set all those up with my device via knobs and pads. especially for the sirin, but also for others as well. even when they have easily accessible controls, it’s more convenient to be able to manipulate them on the sequencer.

i love elektron and have digitone and syntakt - but they’re limited to 4 voice polyphony and not as convenient to use as sequencers for other gear. the CV out is also useful.

I tend to use my sequencer synths as standalone for composition - like i’ll do a whole song on just OP-Z or Digitone, but i need something to sequence my synths that don’t have integrated deep sequencers (sirin, cobalt8, volcas, 0-coast)

I’m ultimately deciding between a korg sq64 and the pyramid. the pyramid is more powerful (many more tracks, MIDI FX, XY pad motion recording, seems like better UI and more) but i’d have to get a faderfox EC4 or something which increases the cost a lot, whereas, the korg is cheap, and I can turn the whole sequencer into a giant faderfox of live midi controls.

ooh, i didn’t realize this, I thought pyramid did have LSB/MSB control - the sirin does accepts LSB/MSB - do you find it makes a big difference sequencing in 128 vs LSB/MSB? like where and how would you notice the difference?

(Digitone polyphony is 8, if you’re just sequencing the tracks individually like me. theoretically more if you sequence it the Elektron way, which i do not)

it’s 8 to play on the synth itself, but just 4 per track if you’re just using it as a sequencer for external gear

what do you mean about more than 8 the elektron way?

its got LSB/MSB for program change messages. For anything else you’d probably have to hack it using CC programming or something. i’ve never tried to do that

i have a digitone too. so it’s multitimbral and then i’m not sure about the voices per timbre. You get 4 tracks which can each have an instrument. on the sequencer for the digitone you can change instruments within a digitone midi sequence, but idk how you do that from external sequencing.

Then you get 4 midi tracks. Those can go to the audio input which you can look at as ‘timbre number 5+’ but regardless of where those 4 midi tracks go you only get one input so things will come in mixed at that point. Anyways,

with microtiming on the Elektron sequencer’s way of triggering notes, a Sound Pool can contain up to 128 different sounds. that doesn’t get you more than 8 voices simultaneously but as a practical matter you can build patterns with any of the sounds in the pool and sequence them in a way that effectively makes it more

oooh i see, yes right - but 8 max at a time if if you can cram 128 into a pattern

ah i see, that’s where i must have gotten the mistaken idea that it was LSB/MSB for everything

that’s good for cobalt8 program changes, where there’s 500 presets

do you find that it sounds crappy if you’re using 128b resolution on your sub37? where do you notice the difference?

they are very different beasts, really apples n’ oranges in workflow.

korg is much more a traditional step sequencer,
pyramid (as mentioned above) is more like a daw derivative.

of course, you can program a sequence in either, but its a different experience.
check the workflow (there are a ton of YouTube videos, loopops is the obvious choice)

neither is better/worst, they are just different approaches.
its important you get the one that suits your needs, its not uncommon to people ask here ‘why can’t it do X?’ as they have misunderstood this.

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can you sequence them like that on the pyramid? i thought you could only do that sequencing directly on the digitone using trig locks.

imho yea i can tell. there’s a lot of subtle stuff you can’t access through normal midi on the moog. For a moog if I wanted like really fluid movement I’d probably defer to the internal lfos on the synth in that case.

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hmm, i haven’t messed with a proper DAW for years, so i guess i’m having trouble imagining it. I’ve seen loopop’s video and it made me feel like it was something similar to elektron, but i’ll check again!

and my main goal is for composition and arrangement - when i play live it’s with a band, i don’t have skills in terms of live looping and messing with sounds on the spot

unrelated question - in euclidean mode, the manual says “ The EUCLID stepmode takes exclusive control of the track player. You can’t use it together with NOTE and CHORD step- modes. ”

So if I want to use the euclidean step sequencer for drums and bass, but then i wanted to add a traditional step sequenced lead line on top of that on a different instrument, I can’t do that?

or is the limitation just that when you create a euclidean track you can’t edit that same track in any other mode? so like my drum tracks will be exclusively euclidean, but i can add a step mode melody lead on top on a different track?

per Track (per Step Pattern, really). but with 64 tracks it’s less of a practical limitation than deciding which voices/notes you want to dedicate to a Euclidean pattern versus sequencing freely in Step/Live mode

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ok cool - do you find the euclidean mode is useful live or it’s more for composition/arranging?

because on Pyramid the Euclidean pattern was restricted to a single note or chord at a time (unless you’re playing the Pattern live from an external keyboard, changing the affected note(s) on the fly) i never really incorporated it into my writing. but now it’s a global FX on Hapax so I may come back to it more