Pyramid incompatible with M-Audio?


#5

My keyboard is also connected to mio10 thru Midi A port and it works fine. Of course it’s not a Keystation controller


#6

I have the same problem with my Moog Grandmother. Pyramid is not accepting the MIDI Data from that device. But Grandmother can communicate with any other usual device without a flaw.
I think there is a bug in the PyraOS 3.1.
Contact Squarp directely and tell them of this specific incompatibility: https://squarp.net/contact
Myabe it helps (I wrote too).

See the thread about the Grandmother MIDI problem:


#7

Thank you for the suggestion - sent them a message. Will report back here if/when I find a solution ~
any other ideas everyone?


#8

I just posted this on a thread about problems with the Grandmother. I dunno if it’s the same problem on the M-Audio keyboard, but it’s worth trying.


I have a solution for you! I had this precise problem with a Waldorf KB37 and then had it again when I got my Grandmother.

The MIDI chip in the Pyramid has some issues with certain other chips and they won’t communicate.

Jean @ Squarp told me:

“Indeed, it’s seems it’s an electric incompatibility between these two devices. It’s the first time I heard of this issue with a Waldorf product.”

As a solution, you can use a MIDI THRU box, for example the MIDI SOLUTION QUADRA THRU.

I’m using the MIDISolutions Merger and it works great with both the KB37 and the Grandmother:
http://midisolutions.com/prodmrg.htm



#9

Right, that more or less confirms my guess in MIDI In problem with Moog Grandmother -thread but by the sound of it, this is a hardware level thing that they wont be able to fix with a firmware update. Thanks for sharing that reply here.

Anybody with a oscilloscope so we could declare the guilty part? :wink:


#10

I have the same trouble using a keystep. It is driving me crazy.
Basically all I have atm is keystep midi out to midi in on the pyramid. Then midi out (port a) from pyramid to midi in on the virus. Again, midi channels are the same on all devices.
How hard should such a simple thing be?
Currently waiting for a reply from Squarp.

Someone mentioned a midi thru box. Could you please explain what I need to do with it.

Cheers


Pyramid midi in with keystep problem
#11

Solved!!!

I connected midi out from keystep to midi in on a midi solutions thru box, then midi thru from thru box to midi in on pyramid. Seems to work completely fine now.


#12

Hi Analog8 and pmatilai et al,
Thanks for helping to suss this out! I do not own a MIDI Thru box… kinda sucks that I have to have another thing, as all I need is the singe MIDI in connection to do what I want to do. All said, the Pyramid is worth it. Loving these polyrhythm capabilities most of all.

Will report back and confirm once I get a hold of a Thru~


#13

So what might the thru box be doing that the keyboard isn’t? Maybe the signal from the keyboard isn’t strong enough for the pyramid, but strong enough for the thru box to amplify it?


#14

Something like that. You’d need an oscilloscope to tell for sure.

Edit: more precisely, either the signal from the incompatible device is too weak or too slow to register as an “on” bit on the Pyramid hardware. Here’s what the MIDI specification states about the signal:

The receiver must require less than 5 mA to turn on. Rise and fall times should be less than 2 microseconds.

A thru-box doesn’t “amplify” the incoming signal in the traditional sense, it merely receives and retransmits the signals it receives. In this case, the particular thru-box just happens to have more tolerant input side than the Pyramid, and an output signal that is within the Pyramid tolerance. Technically it could just as well be the other way around, but this is why the standard exists: with devices that truly are compatible with the MIDI spec, none of this would happen.


#15

No idea why the thru box works.
What may make a difference is if I had a power supply from the keystep instead of USB power.

Annoying as hell but happy to have found a fix.


#16

Ok guys after a bit of thinking and messing about I think I have worked out where the problem really lies.
I was powering the keystep by USB only.
I have disconnected the thru box and reconnected midi out from keystep to midi in again on the pyramid… Same problem as before… But… Wait for it…
Now I disconnected the USB cable from the keystep and instead plugged in a 9v 500mA power supply… And guess what? Everything works fine again.
So it appears the the keystep lacks sufficient power with just USB to transmit midi?


#17

I recall seeing the BS/BSP and other Arturia product support a low power mode while powered via USB. Can’t say for certain if KS use similar logic. It was designed to reduce current drain while powered by an iPad. Some customers shared issues with the way it works, while others noticed degraded operation with the Arp and Sequencer. It wouldn’t surprise me that other capabilities are impacted as well, (such as Midi), but that’s my assumption.


#18

I’m also having this problem with Arturia KeyStep. It does seem to be some sort of electrical incompatibility with USB powered operation. Sometimes the KeyStep will work… a little. But with hung notes, missing notes, or just outright weirdness like pitchbends or modulations that I didn’t trigger, etc.

I am having no trouble when using my Novation 61SL midi out as a controller for the Pyramid.

I’m ordering an external power supply for the KeyStep to see if that helps. And a midi thru box too. :slight_smile:

Thanks for the tips, people.


#19

I’ve been having this same headache for 2 daze now.Then to use an old kenton merger box I had in a drawer for years…dusted it off and viola! You sir saved me $60 fpr a thru box.


#20

Following up on my last post…

I received a new ($20, kinda expensive actually) power supply for my Arturia KeyStep, but it seems to work just as well as the USB power. When using it, I am still seeing odd spurious MIDI messages, bank changes, hung notes, and eventually unresponsiveness (after not too long usually). If it works at all.

HOWEVER, I also did purchase a MIDI Solutions Quadra Thru, and when I put it inline between the KeyStep and the Pyramid, everything seems fine. But this is a kind of expensive solution (over $50) for a $120 keyboard. Especially since the KeyStep works perfectly with everything else I’ve tried. Just incompatible with the Pyramid.

It seems like the MIDI is getting garbled sometimes when received by the Pyramid, almost like there’s a speed/chase issue or something. I’m no MIDI expert though.


#21

There appears to be a variety of incompatable MIDI devices associated with the Pyramid. I haven’t been tracking all vendors but so far have seen Waldorf, Moog & Arturia.

From my vantage point it appears this is a MIDI hardware issue and a temporary work-around is found using a MIDI Thru device. It would be nice to hear from Squarp how they’re planning to address this issue. My unit is not even a year old but this does concern me. Will it be resolvable via a firmware patch or do we have to send device back?


#22

OP here. To update everyone… I got a MIDI Thru box and it solved the problem. M-Audio Keystation 61 now works as expected with the Pyramid. Very pleased!

@endreola I understand where you’re coming from - you buy something boutique and really nice like the Pyramid and for the price you expect everything to work. But this is a pretty common problem when trying to get machines from different manufacturers, from different decades, at different levels of disrepair… to communicate with each other. Yeah it sucks to buy another ‘thing’ to get it all to work, but it’s the nature of MIDI.

This is clearly a hardware incompatibility issue - I don’t think any firmware update would fix it, as has already been stated in this thread.

TL;DR OP bought a Thru Box and everything works now. Highest praise unto the Squarp gods.


#23

Hello all, first post from me here. I just got my Pyramid mkII brand new this week. Just for community knowledge, I wanted to share that I am experiencing this exact issue with my Pyramid and my Akai MPK249.
I do this:
MPK249 5pin MIDI Out -> Pyramid 5pin MIDI IN
and the Pyramid registers no MIDI events on its input port whatsoever.
Fortunately I already have a MIDI Solutions Quadra Thru. I will see if that fixes it after work today. I also have a MIDI Solutions Merger. Hopefully that works too, because I really wanted to use the Quadra Thru on the output of the Pyramid to talk to my little family of hardware synths.
It is a little disappointing the such a common and broadly functional controller keyboard like the MPK249 doesn’t work with the MIDI IN port of the Pyramid.
I will report back later with results using the MIDI Solutions boxes.


#24

Congratulations on the Pyramid and welcome to the forum – where you’ll find a great wealth of info by some very knowledgeable and helpful folks.