Note-Off uses wrong velocity value. (Bug?)

PyraOS 3.23

I just noticed that Pyramid does not record / transmit a correct Note-Off velocity. Each Note-Off has the same velocity value as the previous Note-On.

Please, see attached MIDI-OX screenshot and read further.


  • I start a recording in Live mode on Pyramid.
  • I play the C4 key on the Roland SE-02 + K-25m keyboard.
  • I press stop on Pyramid.
  • On Pyramid I press Play and wait for the note to play.
  • I press stop on Pyramid.

MIDI Port Routing” shows the software connection from SE-02 and K-25m USB output to the USB MIDI input of Pyramid.

The “Monitor - Input” screen shows the MIDI data as it enters MIDI-OX.

  • From Pyramid comes a Start message (Recording start)
  • K-25m keyboard sends Note-On (v = 44)
  • Pyramid sends the same Note-On
  • K-25m keyboard sends Note-Off (v = 27)
  • Pyramid sends the same Note-Off with Note-On velocity!
  • Pyramid sends the recorded note again due to looping.
  • Pyramid sends a Stop message (I stop recording)
  • Again a Start message and Note info after pressing Play.

The “Monitor - Output” screen shows the MIDI data as it is transmitted by MIDI-OX.

  • Note-On (v = 44) and Note-Off (v = 27) from the K-25m keyboard to Pyramid.

I would think it’s a feature (to conserve memory), considering the relative rarity of devices that either transmit or react to note-off velocity and the scarcity of memory on the Pyramid. Many devices don’t send note-off at all, they merely transmit note-on with zero velocity in its place.

Sorry for the OT, but in my limited experience Ive never run across anything that responds to Note Off Velocity.

Im curious as to what devices use this. I can think of synth patch parameters Id route that to, but Ive never owned a synth that responds to it.

Note Off can be used for modulation purposes with synths. The duration of a release can be determined by the speed of the Note-Off for example… or the amount of LFO in a release… and more like those.

Thanks. I understand that bit. I just dont know which synths actually respond to Note Off Velocity.

My experience is limited to a couple of yamaha, roland, Emu, DSI/Sequential. Im thinking it’s so rare i just never paid attention.

I usually pgm mod wheel to alter any patch behaviour on Note Off (usually envelop release, Id guess)

Out of curiosity, I looked up the MIDI implementation charts of my synths: Roland JV-1080, XV-3080 and Gaia SH-01 claim to recognize note-off velocity, others (either older, simpler or more consumer-gradeish stuff) don’t. As to what (if anything) they actually do with it, I’ve no idea.

I must admit I’ve mostly just chuckled at that part of the MIDI implementation charts - okay, besides playing notes it can also turn them off, how awesome is that? :grin:

I’d report it as a bug, if it doesn’t support note-off velocity (which is fine) , it should be sending a constant velocity (iirc, 100 is the norm)

Ive got a few things that respond to note-off velocity e.g. Access Virus TI does :wink:
its a mod-matrix source, its used to quite nice effect in some patches… mainly things like plucked string type sounds.

That’s right. When a keyboard does not work with Note-Off, a fixed value is usually used. For example, here I have a keyboard that always uses v = 64 for Note-Off, but I have also seen that a keyboard sends v = 0 or even a Note-On with v = 0. But we are talking about MIDI controllers .
Sequencers should register the note as it is played. Note-Off is a command that often has no influence on the sound, but is sometimes even important for emulation of traditional instruments, such as the way in which a bow is released from a string or a keyboard instrument in which the hammer falls back to the rest position.
I will submit a bug report later.

EDIT: Bug report has been submitted.

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This scares me!
I had already came to the conclusion that Pyramid is especially suitable for loops and other dance-like stuff and not for general musical work, but after the reply from Squarp I get serious doubts about whether it’s better to sell Pyramid… or even ask for (part of) my money back because it does not meet basic expectations.
After having lots of troubles with corrupted files when I used high quality Lexar SD-cards, it seems like one of the most basic MIDI commands does not, and will never work as it should.

Indeed, Pyramid does not record and save the note OFF velocity info, it’s a hardware memory limitation.

But thanks for reporting!


From the MIDI Implementation Chart:

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I had the same issue when i purchased my Pyramid and at the time it was unable to import MIDI files.

I may not have a use/need for recording Note Off velocity but I understand your frustration.

I wonder what other hardware sequencers on the market record Note Off Velocity

I cannot think of any that allow note off velocity to be stored/retained.
even daws - Im pretty sure Ableton does not store it.

as for midi charts, they are always simplified… the pyramid does record note_off, just not the velocity :wink:

but yeah its a shame, but frankly unsurprising…

But i still think the correct implementation if they dont record it, is to send a static value (100), rather than velocity from note_on… that i think is completely incorrect. (imho)

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I have been a Cubase user since the Atari ST days and as far as I know Note-Off is always recorded as it should be. In any case, I already used it 10 years ago in Cubase 4 and now still in Cubase Pro 10.5.

I purchased Pyramid a year ago to be able to work independently of the PC during composing, but that has gone wrong several times due to the shortcomings of Pyramid.

First the memory ran full due to too many CC commands due to continuous parameter control and pitch bends on several synths at once.

I then spend weeks working on a project, after which all kinds of track effect parameters are suddenly not registered when I save the project … when loading next, the effect settings for a number of tracks were always gone! After several e-mail exchanges with Squarp, they came to the conclusion that it was my SD … despite the fact that I used two identical good quality 32 GB SD cards from Lexar…I then received the standard card from Squarp but in the meantime I had started to work on my project within Cubase.

And now, 5 months later, I decide to give Pyramid another chance to find out after 10 minutes that a basic MIDI command such as Note-Off does not work and will never work, even though the MIDI Implementation Chart says that it should work.

If I pay more than 700 euros for a cheap computer, then I expect to pay for software development … and when it turns out that nothing can be changed through software development because there is only a minimal capacity of internal memory available, then for me the time has come to say goodbye to Pyramid. My guarantee period has officially expired 1 day (!!!) so I am curious how Squarp will solve this.

Your last comment was super inappropriate! Please keep discussion technical. I understand you are frustrated with the lack of Note Off velocity support, but there is no reason to insult the squarp team.

Hello there,

here, my pyramid gives for “note on” and “note off” exactly the same values in all circontancies.
Please, dig on with yours.