Need some MSB/LSB examples to understand how they work

Hi !
I have an old reverb LXP5 which doesn’t accept CC but speaks sysex and MSB/LSB ; However I’m not sure I got it ;

Can someone that use pyramid MSB/LSB functionnality explains to me how and why he/she use it ?

I just need some personnal examples and experience reports about MSB/LSB

Thanks :slight_smile:

I’ll try.

MSB = most significant byte
LSB = least significant byte

The MIDI spec only sends data in range of 0-127 because only 7 bits are used. 111 1111 = 0x7F = 0d127

To send a greater range of numbers, MIDI can use MSB/LSB, so basically two chunks of info instead of one.

We use it regularly on the Pyramid for Bank Select since that’s part of 2nd+Track.

I may have this backwards, but CC 0 is Bank Select MSB and CC32 is Bank Select LSB. So on the 2nd+Track screen, MSB and LSB refer to specific MIDI CC’s, not SysEx.

You mentioned SysEx.
Pyramid is not capable of sending SysEx that I know of. It would be handy for me, since i use SysEx to do “stuff”, but Im currently using an Event Processor for that.

SysEx is a way that mfrs can create their own communication within MIDI but not following the strict format of Event and CC type formatted msgs.

A SysEx msg example in my system:
F0 mm pp dd cc bb F7

Where mm=manufacturer ID
pp= product ID, dd=device ID, cc=command byte, bb=data byte(s)

Since Pyramid does not send SysEx, I’m thinking this is enough info for now. I use SysEx on my system, so if you get into 14bit signed integers or something exciting like that I’ll be happy to help.

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Ok great thanks a lot ! I was a bit confused about all of this but it makes sens now !

So MSB and LSB are not sysex msg but midi ; they are basically 1"CC" divided into 2parts because it’s too heavy for a single 7bits cc ; right ?

Anyway that’s enough for me I’ll try to use those to acces internal parameter of the lexicon ; now I have to read the manual again to figure out how to do it, but if it’s midi it should not be that complicated :slight_smile:

Last thing, I know you use a soft for sysex transmission, but do you know a great way of working with sysex in a DAW like ableton (maybe with a max4live device of some kind) ?

For now I only use sysex to dump pattern bank using midi ox ;

Apologies.
MSB and LSB are larger terms than just what you see on the Pyramid screen when you press 2nd+Track.

MSB/LSB that you see on the Pyramid screen on 2nd+Track are specific to CC0 and CC32 for Bank Select.

If the LXP needs SysEx to modify parameters, it would seem unlikely it is listening to CC0 and 32.

On my rig to send SysEx I use a BomeBox. I dont know if Ableton can send SysEx. Maybe one of the people smrt with that stuff will chime in.

You can use MIDIOx to send SysEx also, btw.

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thanks for the add, that makes sens ;

Indeed the (lxp5) parameters are already assigned to specific value and they are not CC that would be too easy ; I can see why MRC controllers are so rare XD

Anyway enough for me, I will edit my patch with my trusty hands, and I’m glad the encoders of the LXP5 are still working :slight_smile:

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain this ! that stuff can get pretty obscur if you are only a musician ^^

Did you measure the latency implied by your bomebox btw ? just curious about it :slight_smile:

Cheers, and thank you again for your help :smiley: !

I checked out the LXP manual. If you decide to configure something, let me know. Id be happy to help because i enjoy that kind of stuff.

Im a failed code hack with musical delusions. LOLOLOLOL

latency/bomebox: i cant remember where i was at with my project if that was the issue. I was experiencing problems with the Pyramid receiving several CC msgs. The Pyramid does strange things sometimes and I had a convo with the Squarp Gurus on it. I have a workaround, so it’s all good.

As for latency caused by the BomeBox, i haven’t experienced anything. The Box is basically a Linux computer and is quite a bit faster with a MIDI data stream than the Pyramid can handle. I actually have to program delays in the data to avoid overwhelming the Pyramid.

Thanks for checking the manual ; it’s crazy how deep into midi sorcery LXP5 can go ! I’ll just enjoy it as it is for now XD ; but thanks for the help ! I might try an editor one day but to be fair, I wanted to do parameters automations of the LXP5 with the pyramid ;

I have also a stereo issue that is totally weird : somehow it canot use the 2 outputs at once, but I’m sure all jack sockets work properly because sometimes the lexicon switch to the other output (it is supposed to know what to do with outputs, it can spit a mono signal through either L or R output, it does it by detecting were you pluged your jack I believe) I spend 3days investigating, opening the thing, changing cables, testing stuff, with no chance ;
Somehow, the “right” (as opposed to left) part of the reverb is always missing, but it can still output through R output (or L for that matter)
It worked before, and despite me changing every parameters that could be related to pan/stereo, so far no luck ; the solution is unreachable for me and after days of trying to make it worked…I just enjoy it as it is, in mono ^^ LOL

And yes sometimes the pyramid does strange things, but hoppefully it has been quite stable for now :slight_smile: just need to make the faulty encoders changed by squarp team, but have to wait for the crisis to end to do that !

Oh Chile! If that’s what you consider ‘midi sorcery’…! LOL

In the old days, at least in my memory (which is subject to massive degredation and whimsical dementia) most synths (also, at least the ones I owned or worked with) had some pretty extensive SysEx documentation.

But I’m fond of digital synths especially rackmounts and there’s usually many more parameters than knobs/buttons.

If you don’t have any patches on the LXP that you can’t recreate or are not backed up, perhaps see if they have a factory reset…? I often find that when I’m learning a synth I’ll end up changing some setting and instead of figuring out what I did wrong it’s easier to just “refresh the playfield” as it were.

Or I imagine you can backup via SysEx into MIDIOx. If you can backup individual patches, just backup the important ones and reload them back one by one to see if it’s the settings on a patch that are doing this thing.

Either way: again apologies, because I like troubleshooting this more than what I’m troubleshooting at the moment. I’m procrastinating.

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Ahah yes, the famous factory reset sysex files that Lexicon could have done XD
No one seems to have it, I read somewhere that a guy did speak with lexicon with no luck, they don’t have it and maybe it didn’t even exist ; I even searsh for it on the internet archive but nothing :confused:

but if you have an idea on the place in the internet were I could find any LXP5 sysex files, even if they are not official, I would be very happy to get and try them ; at least “uploading” files in sysex is something I can do :slight_smile: use it mostly to backup pattern bank or to change the OS of a X0XB0X ;

Don’t appologize, thanks for your help :slight_smile: what are you troobleshooting ?

https://lexiconpro.com/en/products/lxp-5

Sorry, were you trying to get Pyramid to send Patches via SysEx?
I assumed you wanted to modulate your FX in realtime and the LXP5 responds to either knob twists or SysEx

Now that I can read the manual on my laptop screen and not my cell phone, all that stuff is already implemented for MIDI CC’s

Perhaps I misunderstood your original query.
Apologies. :wink:

Factory Resets aren’t usually a SysEx thing
http://web.archive.org/web/20051104061735/http://www.lexiconpro.com/support/product-faq-details.asp?ID=9

But in a little reading it seems that some of the Factory Presets are deleted with that, so be sure to backup…? Your mileage may vary. Please read that info and decide for yourself. I’m a bit more dismissive with factory presets than most people. Following what I suggest can (most likely) delete existing Presets and possibly “Factory” Presets and I can’t handle that kind of responsibility. :sunglasses:

I’m troubleshooting 2 things:

  • My control script seems to sometimes trigger some Pyramid Tracks one beat early and I’m trying to determine if it’s my playing technique or something I need to ‘fix’ with my Output Timers. Since this is not a ‘product’ and something I wrote (well, MTPro, so not really ‘wrote’ LOL), I’m the programmer and the support department and damnit I want to speak to the manager!
  • DMXIS (MIDI to DMX lighting control) Standalone app is receiving MIDI Sync, but is not following the correct tempo (jumps around like a junkie kangaroo on payday). Apparently few (if any) use this device without a DAW. heh

There are smart people here who could do this stuff in a weekend, but it would take me months to describe what I want to have happen and where I’m at with the project. LOLOLOL

Be well.
Stay Safe.
Stay Healthy.
Wash your hands.

You understood it well, I wanted to change parameters in real time using the pyramid ;
I already sent PC to the LXP5 it works well :slight_smile:
However It seems it doesn’t respond to the other CC I send (I used the values that are in the manual/midi implementation but I don’t even know if they are reffering to CC numbers or to something else.

What is sending the clock ? Have you tried to send the sync with something else ? Sometimes weird incompatibility can occur

Thanks for your help on the sync, but I’ve been through the ringer on this one.
It’s a rabbit hole that will drive grown men mad, cause cities to crumble, and Cthulhu to wake.
heh heh

I think my solution will be a nice VST Host just to run it.

As for the CC’s for the Lexicon, you’re on your own.
I’d have to read the manual a little deeper, and without thedevice in front of me I’d probably give you completely incorrect info.

But it does seem like it uses a MIDI Patch system…? Maybe?
That is, on the Preset you decide that MIDI A (Incoming data) gets routed to, say, Delay Time.
Then another section you define what CC is MIDI A.

Digital synths I’ve worked with were often this way, especially with Emu gear (which I love). If that is the case, let me explain a bit:
In a patch I put a filter and decide I want to modulate the Filter.
In the Patch I tell it that MIDI A will modulate the Filter.
In the Systems Settings I tell it that MIDI A will be CC 43 (for example)
Then sending CC43 will modulate the Filter.

I love love love this approach and my synths that do not support this kind of thing have MTPro Translators in between so effectively ALL my synths do this, just some are not native.

have fun!
Sorry, been on the support boards for 4 different products today.

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