Midi channel "clash"

Hi please,
I am am planning to buy a tanzmaus thats instruments are placed on midi channels 1-9, but I would like to use my JDXI too, thats synth parts are “hardwired” in 1-2-3 midi channel.
Could the pyramid deal with this situation?

Thanks a lot,
Ferenc

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The Pyramid has two MIDI outputs, so it will be fine if you run one output to your JDXI and the other output to the Tanzmaus.

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Hi, thanks for answering, I like your avatar
Yes, thank you I had some feeling that it is possible,

But here are other gears… i made a description,
I can not tell exactly where I am lost, but i wrote what I would like to achieve:

BCR2000 (in-out-thru)>>> ( would like to control the Tetra)

JX 305 Rompler (in-out-thru) >>> (i would like to have it like keyboard forr ALL syths, but utilize its 8bit sounds)

SqrpPyra<<<

<<< DSI Tetra (in-out-thru) (play it with 305)

<<< JDXI (**in-out/**thru) (play it with 305, spinning programmers, record on Pyra)

<<<Tanzmaus (in-out/thru) I would like to spin the programmers, and make the pyramid record)

(bracket shows us the midi ports that are built in to them, and the bolder, where I guessed what should I use amongst those ports)

It was a fun to write this all down, i made plenty of drawings too, to make it understood, but…

Yes I forget to beg. Please, help me get closer to the solution, and/or if there is a thread that helps me to get closer, please point it out for me!

Thanks!

I guess there is somet trick with midi thru boxes ot something similar.
But I do not know what should I use for what,
That is what I know that the JX 305 midi keyboard can be assigned on a separate midi channel, and probably control himself trough the pyramid.
So its like I want to control all the knobby things by themselves.
But rout the performance information to the pyramids memory.

When you got hard coded midi channels, your options are limited:

  • configure all the other synths to not use those channels
  • You can use midi port B and midi port A to have two things hard coded to channel 1 (this is how I do it)
  • You can use something like a bomebox to reprogram the midi channel in real time

In my rig I have two synths hard coded to channel 1, I have one of them on port A and one on port B. If I have a third synth hard coded to channel 1… i don’t use it, though I do have a bomebox if I got desperate.

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Ive renamed topic, as I think you meant clash, rather than crash
(I’d assumed something has crashed and had stopped working when I saw the title :wink: )


id say draw a picture and share, its alot easier for others to understand.
(included details of limitations e.g. what midi channels instruments can send/receive)

also , what does ‘spin the programmers’ mean?

from your description, id say the key problem your going to have, is you seem to be trying to get many things to send input to the pyramid.
whilst this is possible (using separate midi channels and midi merge boxes) its going to get confusing fast.

generally (there are exceptions) , most use the pyramid as the ‘hub’ to the setup, where everything flows thru it, and then use one keyboard/controller as the master keyboard.
this makes it pretty simple

master keyboard → pyramid (pass thur, or record) → many instruments.

in your setup, thats sounds like you want to to use the JX305 as the master keyboard, connected to the MIDI IN of the pyramid.

then because you have more than two synths for output ,
you are either going to need to use midi thru (this is ‘ok’, but if its only one ‘step’, but not ideal)
use a midi splitter.

assuming this is all MIDI DIN, then you have two midi outputs (A & B) which means you have 2 x 16 channels.
if you have ‘clashes’ , you may be able to put those that clash on A , and the other on B.
if you have more than two, then you are going to need something that processes midi, to start remapping midi channels.

(if you have some using USB device, then thats another output target, which’ll help)

there are two kind of choices for remapping midi channels
a) a more complex midi router
for example the iConnectvity mio range

b) a midi processor,
something like blokas midihub.

in your case, Id be tempted to look at these, as they could well simplify your setup.
the iConnectivity stuff is pretty flexible and very easy to use
the blokas midihub is a bit more flexible - a kind of swiss army knife for midi :slight_smile:

edit: wrote this at same time as vt100, so I may repeat some of what they said…

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Okay, first of all thanks a lot for all your input.

So the plan: the USB ment to be some ICONNECTIVITY stuff, that brings together the JDXI and tha SQUARP on the squarps USB port , then midichannel clash checked.

The SQRP (that naming would be cool if they print it on the next pieces) output A
brings THE DATA to the MFB Drumcomputer >
that data goes trough, and hits the TETRA >
but from there it is circulating back to the SQUARP’s input like >
picks up the control data from the BCR 2000 >
and share some room in a midi THRU BOX with the JX-305’s output signal (which good old rompler is feeded from the SQRP’s midi out B) >
and then back to the SQRP INPUT

Well it is not a plan, it is in my imagination

If it would work I guess the powering up is just a simple usb splitter that gets into an usb charger.

would it be good?

you can’t use a thru for multiple inputs, you have to use a midi merger…
also these tends to be ‘dumb’… so you have to make sure you are not mixing midi channels.
(if you need more, then you need a midi rotuer/processor)

usb - no, thats not going to work for the jdxi, they are both usb midi devices, you need a usb midi host to move stuff between usb midi devices.

also creating midi loops like this are a recipe for heartache… you can make them work, but without alot of care, you’ll end up with feedback loops that you do not want.

as I said above, Id choose a ‘master keyboard’ and then fanning the midi out from that to your instruments via the the pyramid.

that is where I would start, once your confident with that, then you can look at multiple source for midi into the pyramid.

also think carefully about which device is going to be your midi master clock - thats important for how messages flow ( if you dont have a preference, use the pyramid as the master)

btw: most of this is not specific to the Pyramid (!) , most of the above would be true of any sequencer… it much easier/simpler/less problematic to have a kind of ‘heirarchy’ , than a network.

complexity tends to creep in naturally, so best to start of with simple plans - esp. when new to a product :wink:

also, Id say, if you have lots of midi devices, look at things like the iConnectivity mio range, or blokas midihub - mid-term, they will probably save you alot of headaches, as they allow more flexible routing.

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Hey ok,
Thanks again
The midi loop thing as I understand is something that best to be avoid.

About the clock, I would like to have that from pyramid.

If I get it right, the blokas can change my chaining section above to a logically routed system.
And if I move the JDXI into that system, replaced with the the MFB to communicate to the Pyramid through USB then the midi clash issue is solved.

Do you think thisOne could handle the Pyramid Usb port <> MFB communication?

the midi2+ no, because it acting as 2 usb midi devices, not hosts. (its also discontinued)

however, iConnectivity’s mioXM , mioXL can do this, as they are usb hosts
they can also handle your midi channel issues, since they allow remapping of midi channels.

Hey
thanks for -repeatedly- answering my ignorant questions. I just needed to search, and realize that midi2+ is not what I need and that you knew it already well.

I tought the midi2+ could act a host- , for using, the JDXI on the Pyramids USB / I would like to plug/translate the JDXI DIN MIDI In/Out’s in the Pyramid USB if that is possible, to be able to control the events on the JDXI controllers too, since it is very hands on/ .

But then, do you think a THIS kind of thing could manage to solve the midi clash part of the story? If that separates the JDXI from the MIDI DIN section of the pyramid

The other thought that I was planning to bring up named like: Emagic Unitor 8 , I hope he could work well on the MIDI DIN section. Has plenty IN and OUT, I could even connect my household in to it.
Yes and its easy to get an used one, for the half of the price as the Blokas goes.

And this would be the less expensive, and maybe more extensive (lots of plugs) solution about the “chaining freak” chapter, would not it? But I am still convincing about the Blokas, I want somethoing that is working, but I would prefer to have stuff that is working for less money.

,

yes, that looks like it would host one usb midi device - so yes could do jxdi midi → pyramid usb.

however. I think, you’ll soon outgrow this … usb midi is becoming pretty common these days, and you also are already having issues with midi channel clashes.

thats the problem once you start getting more hardware you find routing gets increasingly more difficult, and its easier (imho) to have one (more expensive ?) box that can do it all, rather than lots of little boxs (splitter, mergers, processors, usb bridges) - thats why quite a few of us have the iConnectivity boxes.

the other approach, which is even simpler :slight_smile: … plug things in when you need them,

honestly, at times, Ive spent hours reconfiguring routers, sorting out ‘issues’ , just so that everything is connected and ready to go.
sometimes i feel, it would just be easier (and alot cheaper) to just connect things when they are actually being played - in others plug stuff in, play/record it, unplug it, plug something else in.

sure, it feels illogical, surely everything should be always connected, but at some point this can lead to drowning in cables and routers!

yeah, ok, then I have alternatives, I will give it a thought and I will choose,

currently I have limited time to take care of the rig, and it spends on reading manuals, learning ideas and hardwares

all could be true with the cable jungle either, but I think there more midi channels, then hardware in my case

but after all, please make it clear for me ( I tried some research but the infos ar popped up only incidentally and did not make me sure) :

Pyramid has overall four MIDI ports > OUT A, OUT B , MIDI IN, and there is one ont the USB port
My questtion about a USB port capabilites: could this doalso the IN and the OUT function?

And my other uncertainity is,still about the “Midi calsh”, if I am routing back the devices controller information in to the Pyramid trough the MIDI IN port (and the USB MIDI IN port, if thats possible)
then:
will the Pyramid be able to distinguish the incoming MIDI channels and its info?
for example there is incoming data on the JDXI MIDI Channel 3 and there would be an other Channel 3 that used by a drumcomputer,

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Pyramid has TWO input sources : USB Midi (as device), DIN IN
it has 4 outputs, USB MIDI , DIN A, DIN B, CV
(theres is also thru, but lets ignore that!)

outputs can be specific per track

however, DIN IN and USB MIDI IN, cannot be differentiatd… the input streams are merged.

midi channel in to track mapping is controlled by a setting
MIDI IN → OMNI mode (see : https://squarp.net/pyramid/manual/settings)

there are various settings, see manual for full details

MULTITRACK OFF
all midi channels will go the currently selected pyramdi track

CH01-CH16
selected midi channel will go to currently selected pyramid track

MULTITRACK BANK A-D
this wll mean map midi channel to a track number on a bank
e.g.
MULTITRACK BANK A,
midi channel 01-16, maps to track A01-A16
important note: Track A01-A16, can map to ANY midi output target - only the input is mapped, not the output.

you can see MULTITRACK OFF/CH01-CH16 , work on the principle that you are controlling where midi goes based on the track you have selected on the pyramid.
this is useful when using a single master keyboard.

MULTITRACK BANK A-D, works on the principle of mapping midi channels to tracks.
useful on keyboards that support multiple parts/midi channels - so you can direct midi directly from the keyboard. also useful if you are just trying to record multiple instruments at the same time.


I move between modes …
I mainly use MULTITRACK BANK A, as I use a virus as my master keyboard, so each parts equates to a different midi channel, and so on to a different instrument in my studio.

but the other modes are useful, e.g. using CH01 (with midi thru) allows me to choose to record only if I play on channel 01… and play other instruments directly on other channels (via the Pyramid still)

btw: this is pretty common in sequencers, some call it a follow or master channel (which play ‘active’ track on sequencer)

theres a lot of choice - if anything, the main thing is just to stick to one workflow , working around any ‘complications’ - I personally, found it easy to get sucked into continually trying different approachs seeking perfection… this doesn’t exist, every approach has pros/cons.

overall, Id recommend thinking about how you want to set it up.
then read the manual, and look to see how it might be possible (the info is all there!)

then, you might find you either want to adapt how you want to work or buy more hardware to sort out issues. midi is very flexible, so there is always a way :slight_smile:

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