Keyboard to Piano, vial Hapax: Velocity problem ( a midi fastforward problem vs. Velocity)

Hello community,

after a longer break, i started to use the Hapax again.
The Hapax FW should be the latest. (edit: OS 1.11)

i run my masterkyboard into my Hapax, via USB, into Host port.
i send the midi directly to my PC, from the USB device port.
I play Pianoteq (ITB) in realtime via the Hapax.

my Problem:
the Velocity that arrives at my ITB Piano has some unnatural scaling on it.
This “unnaturality” is NOT given, vs. the recordet loops on Hapax.
The midi loops played from the Hapax sequenzer do work correct.
its only the direct forwarded midi that acts strange.
The problem is only the Velocity.

the Velocity seems too low until a certain threshold, and begins then to be too load.
hard played notes occour as VERY LOUD !
…it was in fact quite unfunny now, when it happened the first time.
i mean, it was REALLY loud ! Like 200%,…definitly not just like 120%.
Well, 150% could be a reasonable number

What could cause this behave,…do i maybe overlook any settings ?
( as sayed, i´m fresh back to the Hapax, but never had such an issue bevore / not shure if i ever was able to forward the midi data from my masterkeyboard, though…)
any special settings to look at ?
or is this maybe a known bug ?

the project is an old one, that was used to send Data to my PC (to Pianoteq).
its not a fresh project.
i never used any special settings ( these fancy midi FX things).
i just permanently delete the patterns, and record by new.
Thats the only change i made. Well, and pattern lenght settings.
I´ve not touched anything deeper


First question - does this happen if you plug the keyboard directly into the PC and play Pianoteq directly?

The next thing I’d suggest is opening the MIDI Monitor (2nd+Live) which will show you all the incoming (left screen) and outgoing (right screen) messages. Are the velocities the same?

You could also try monitoring the MIDI input of Hapax on your PC with something like MIDI-OX, and checking that it’s the same coming into the PC as Hapax claims it is sending.

Weird issue, though. I’ve not encountered any problems with velocity being increased by Hapax. The only thing I can think of is that you’re getting duplicate notes (ie, one from MIDI Thru, and one from the Track) and possibly Pianoteq, instead of ignoring one of those notes or playing two duplicate notes at the same time, is playing them twice as loud. I guess an easy way to check this is to remove all MIDI Thrus from the Settings section (especially from USB Host) and seeing if that makes a difference.

as @Loz , check the velocities in and out using the midi monitor (and also on any recording)

this will allow you to determine if its what being sent TO hapax by keyboard, FROM hapax , or the ITB Piano you are using. (*)

also, Pianoteq also has a midi monitor, so check that too…
(and if you are using a DAW, you can see what it says too)

basically this is a chain… and you need to see which point in the chain is causing the ‘issue’ before we can speculate and causes.
(one of those situations where methodical testing… is much quicker than guessing)

(*) another way, but less effective/flexible, is to manually enter notes in Hapax, rather than record…and see if you hear the same thing… so to eliminate midi input.
however, really everyone should learn how to use midi monitors to diagnose issues… 5 mins figuring this out, will save you hours over the years!

This is a VERY good suggestion @Loz
I will do later tonight, and will monitor the midi at both places.

Thanks alots !

In fact, yes, later on, i had some irregularitys too, without the Hapax.
But way less intensiv. just little. ( a small jump -increase- on some very few notes vs. Velocity)
…i just had to quite the session at that point.

yup ! thats why i´m here…/ long time not been behind my Hapax.
I have to learn it by new ! :wink:
knowing that there has never been any problem with the Hapax in that regard helps also allready alots.
Midi montitoring within the hapax was totally not on my radar i must admit.

I hope the midi monitoring will give me a result, since its lots of data coming in, while its just some notes on a irregular base.
( Pianoteq is used btw. within gigPerformer)

The strange thing was, playing the recordet notes from the Hapax, caused NO issue. Never.
Must be something with the cabling.

I´ll check !
Thanks alots to you both ! Much appreciated

I have a sneaking suspicion it might be MIDI Thru + MIDI output of the track. My Nord Modular kept having notes stolen for no reason, and I tracked it down to it receiving two note on messages for each note I played, but I did also notice that it was louder than normal, because it was playing two notes of the same pitch at the same time, kinda like a unison.

My other synths didn’t do this, so think it was the Nord being ‘clever’

And don’t worry about asking stuff, as it’s the best way to learn. Hopefully we can nudge you in the right direction, even if you don’t know where to start sometimes.

1 Like

been a while since I used gig performer…
but pretty sure it also has a midi monitor, you can combine this with its midi filter (midi in → midi filter → midi monitor) , to reduce quantity of data. (i.e. just look at notes)

@Loz , yeah, it’s not uncommon… some synths/vsts will re-voice the same notes, whilst others will ignore 2nd note.
its actually a very useful feature (almost requirement) when using MPE/microtonal controllers
with microtonal/expressive controllers since you go off-pitch ( e.g. either initially, or from a slide, ) you combine notes on with (large) pitchbend… so whilst the (midi) note on might be the same , the actual note heard is completely different. (mpe ‘default’ pitchbend range = 48 semitones)

also, as you say, with MPE, its a nice expressive feature… since you basically create a unison, but each of the notes has a different colour/timbre… its very effective.

1 Like

You can set up parameters on the Nord so they are just on one voice (so basically have different filter, tuning, whatever on a per voice basis) which could prove pretty interesting. So I know full well why it does it. It’s just something to look out for if you’re not expecting it.

1 Like

old answer, written a few days ago, whne i was sidetracked bevore i could post:

thats interesting.
i had a similar issue in the past with playing pianoteq standalone.
Probably too long to explain.

Ok, there is really something to debug.
You make me condident that it must be a “double note” issue.
But its only a few random notes, every now and then.
Sometimes a bit more often, but nothing completly even

But whatever it is, it came up by taking the Hapax again into my (midi) live.
and never had any such issue the last months elsewhere.

had no time to make serious checks vs. my cabling vs. the Hapax.
i´ll report back, in case something changes here