Cannot Import Type 1 .mid Files for Separate Patterns


#21

I wonder if Ableton would agree that another product uses its .als format
I know that the latest Electribes are compatible with the .als export.
since the Pyramid has a similar structure to Ableton Live SESSION window (sequences = scenes & pattern = midi clips) it could be handy … :smiley:
Since many people use LIVE nowadays, I think it would open an additional market for the Pyramid (some have bought the latest Electribes for this very feature … unfortunately, regarding this generation of Electribes, it’s pretty much the only advantage…)


#22

i don’t think ableton care… though being non published format, they won’t help you… i.e. they could break it in a future release. (though they need to be backwards compatible for those migrating from previous versions of live)

as a developer, probably my approach would be to create a small app, that converted type 1 files into als format, would be a bit easier to maintain, and generally useful.

anyway, pyramid does not currently have an import/export function as such, its just it uses type 0/1 midi files as its storage - this is why (i believe) you have to turn on patterns by track, this basically says to now use type 1 format for the file.

i think the bug , is simply there are some headers in type 1 file, that probably are not used by the pyramid, that it is not skipping correctly ie. its a partial implementation of type 1… enough that its compatible for daws to load, but its reading is not quite rigorous enough to import daws type 1 files.


#23

Apologies for my harsh language. :wink:


#24

just think we have to give the devs a break sometimes … especially if we want them to want to interact with us :wink:

btw: i tested with Bitwig , also has the same issue there.
Bitwig is quite cool, as you can do similar things to Live, but it does import and export of type 1 midi files, and also auto groups them :slight_smile:

i did notice something also odd (I suspect not just Bitwig)
I created 2 tracks, first with 2 patterns , second with 4 patterns.
what I found was that it actually read the first two pattens of track 1, and put them on track 2!
(so different variation on the issue)

also I did a bit of reading of the midi file spec… what i found, was that actually ideally, the Pyramid should use type 2 (not type 1) for patterns, as type 2 is designed for ‘horizontal form’ aka patterns.
http://www.music.mcgill.ca/~ich/classes/mumt306/StandardMIDIfileformat.html#BM2_2

unfortunately, few daws (or anything else) support type 2… which is i guess why Squarp went for type 1.
(pity, as if Live supported type 2, patterns would end up as clips, not tracks!)

oh, well thats the joy of midi… lots of features which dont get implemented :wink:


#25

Re: Bitwig/notice odd - So even the 4 pattern track, when importing a 4 Track Type 1 .mid file put it on the 2nd Track? My experience was that all the note data (only tested with clips with simple note data, no CC data) was placed on that last track, which in one (early and most likely misremembered) four track Type 1 .mid file case was Pattern 4 and another two track Type 1 .mid file into Pattern 2.

Type 2 SMF: Per midi.org, “Type 2 was also specified originally but never really caught on” so to use that format would be…disastrous. I haven’t researched if any DAWs support Type 2.

As for the ‘joys of midi’ - I don’t remember it being like this in the old days.
shakes fist at clouds

giggle


#26

it basically put track 1s first two patterns on to track 2 first two patterns (and track 2s other patterns were left of)

Id not worry too much… Im sure if Squarp look at this at all, then they will find the issues…
I think whats happening is they are using bare minimum of midi type 2 info in their files, which is ok for daws reading, but then when they get ‘extra’ information from a daws ‘more complete’ implementation its tripping over itself.
I’m sure as soon as they try to parse a 3rd party daws type 2 data with their code (in a debugger) it will all become pretty clear…

personally, Im quite tempted to leave bug reporting till after the OS 3.0 beta is released, as Im assuming once its released they will be in ‘bug fix mode’ , before doing the final OS 3 release :wink:


#27

I still can’t get it to work.so it’s play the song into Pyramid as per the PDF manuscript notation that we are used to reading (oldschool).
as a sidebar it was said that most don’t need this function and you replied as if you were using harsh language…I didn’t detect harsh language no apologies
required.
PS it would a great feature saving me tons of time allowing me to learn a clients tunes ,mangling them,then not having to load the van with my gear travel to studio set up,remembering how the synths are dialed (i’m dum and didn’t take photos)(we are talking anolog vs rompler) Rather just email the recorded .wav files I made a mess of.


#28

My workaround is currently saving everything I want as separate Pyramid Patterns as Type 0 .mid files, import the lot of them, then spend an afternoon of Copy/Paste to get them as different Patterns on their destination Tracks.

So you can still import, it just doesn’t work as documented with Type 1 .mid files.


#29

That is a horrible work around.
I can read standard notation.I kinda even know after 40 years music theory and after thousands of hours I kinda know my axe.
I love the squarp for what i want it to do for me which is well…mine
I can’t apply that to others “wishes” which is take a midi file send that note data to my synths and mangle the sounds.
it’s just midi notes .the rest i can get my kids to turn knobs step on pedals hold the cats head to the theremin or bug the dog
not spend an afternoon importing a 16 bar blues in 6/8
I just have that luxsury or patience.it destroys my creativity which is why i hate computers.which is based on improvsation spontinataty …i can’t even spell now so i am probably not making sense.


#30

I can create a 16 bar track ! but I cannot fill that track with a .mid file
we are still on the same page ya?
if so
I also have guitar voicings …polyphonic that i can reproduce on a motif xf rack.
then on a separate midi track reproduce that midi data into a moog SP
oops no i cant the squarp does nt recognize the midi data.
so I literally have input …I smashed so many computers
I am not a keyboard mplayer.piano is hard for me.guitar ok but I’m bad at it.


#31

maybe just asking too much…yup that’s asking to much.I fucking love the squarp.i got doing euclidean shit on a MS20 and it’s sick in mono. fuck the blofeld next is polychase using the mondovox


#32

I’m concerned over MIDI Jitter issues so until I get that worked out I’m not comfortable recording realtime from an external sequencer into the Pyramid.

I’m not much of a keyboard player - I tend to noodle short phrases and then edit (a lot!) from there to get what I want. I’m still experimenting with how I want to interface with the Pyramid: right now I’m composing loops on the Pyramid (mostly drums because I like the pad interface for pgmg drum phrases - voiced on a rompler), then dumping them into a DAW and editing from there. I figure if/when I get around to creating a performance, the Pyramid will do it’s second duty, which is basically a MIDI playback device with options for repeating passages of music depending on what the guitarist/singer do or forget. heh (So, basically two Projects per ‘song’ - One that’s just noodles/creation, then dump & edit, then create a new Project for the performance version of the song)

I’m LOVING the Pyramid for creation and can’t wait for my first “from scratch Pyramid” piece, but that will come with time as I have other stuff to get done.

I’ve yet to explore analog beyond ‘the old days’, which usually consisted of ‘turn it on a pray it’s in tune’. I didn’t get voracious until the DX7IIFD came out. My bank account will hate me, but I like being able to call up patches.

So: you create a 16 bar track and want to ‘fill’ that with a .mid file?
I can do that easily following the basic steps listed in the documentation.

One Pyramid Track with One Pyramid Pattern - Don’t enable Patterns, create the Track. Save the Project. Stick the SD Card into the computer, copy the .mid file over to the appropriate directory, follow all the necessary naming conventions, eject the SDCard, put it back in the Pyramid, turn it on, load the Project and the data should be there. No?


#33

I have been trying “that” It’s too slow for me.(and complicated) so it’s just not easy.I “work” with a guitarist that sends me PDF and .mid files of his pieceI can read notation but am not keyboardist per say I can learn my part sax/ewi sight reading no problem .I have my solution…he can come over record his guitar direct into the squarp with his axe .I don’t need the comp as he uses a fairly highend studer neve recording setup .just would be nice without to much computer to mangle the pieces.on my own time without em traveling etc…or me for that matter.
still loving the squarp though ain’t tried my guitar/ sixtrak combo with it yet.


#34

The best workflow is the one that works for you for making music!

If doing Type 0 .mid files doesn’t work for you, Type 1 shouldn’t be that much of a different process. :wink:


#35

agreed .live is best capture the moment.as an improviser the gold is found spontaneously .ya alot can be just shite but my experience is the more I study the more i learn and that brings me joy.been at it for 50 years and had many success’ (musically) Now with my years of collecting (GAS) the squarp is allowing me to explore without a fucking mouse or smashing computers in frustration .


#36

Hi Guys,
Unfortunately, we have neither Sonar, Anvil, or any kind of DAW that can export a midi type 1 file.
Can you please share an example of simple midi type 1 file, so we test it with Pyramid?
Thanks!


#37

Anvil is free software, but you can also download Type 1 midi files at http://www.midiworld.com/files/

This was after a quick search. I’m not awake so I may be in error, but I got overly excited that this thread had not died. :wink:


#38

simple question: why does Pyramid use type 1 files for patterns?

this MIDI format is not thought for that purpose (but on the contrary for multitracks)

why not just cut tracks into “midiclips”(patterns), format 0, that we could easily import into a DAW

there may be a tree structure in the Pyramid project folder depending on the different tracks/patterns

it would be easier to navigate when you switch from one to another.

Also, could we hope to have an option to import the midi file directly from the Pyramid SD card?
(and again, in this case, it would be much more relevant to import only one pattern (midiclip) at the time, on a track)

there is a question on another thread to copy datas from one project to another
but it would be even simplier/powerful to import midiclips/patterns between projects


#39

This issue will be fixed in the next beta issue!

@TheLoudest
To keep project compatibility between V1 and V2, we had to keep the structure: 1 track = 1 midi file. And to keep project loading/saving fast, we can’t create 1 pattern = 1 midi files (because more files to load = slower is the loading)


#40

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