Automation sent upon Song Stop?

Is there any way to program automation (CC’s primarily) that is sent when you stop the song?

My use case is simple:

If I’ve hit stop mid-song, some of my tone generators just keep playing as they’ve received a sustain (CC64) message.

If Hapax could send out some automation upon stop, it would easily solve the problem.

Relevant to anyone else here?

Hehe Squarp just “fixed” the LFO behavior to stop sending midi when the sequencer is stopped… which makes sense to me

raise as a FR/Bug via contact form.

its not a simple thing to fix… the issue is ‘what is the correct value’ to send?

I half remember discussing this with Squarp in the past…
both for sustain, and also for CCs in general…

certainly for CC74 (sustain) sending zero is almost certainly what you want…
but you can bet that some synth out there has decided to use cc74 for something else, and this would ‘break’ it :wink:

iirc, my suggestion was based around the idea that each CC value has a ‘default’ value (see automation documentation), so IF you record automation then this value you could be used on STOP to ‘reset’ it

note: you only want to do IF automation has been recorded since, for most CCs on your synth you have likely not set the default value - so it will be incorrect.

so its not an easy fix… (beyond arguably CC74 which does have a fairly standard meaning)

anyway, discuss it with Squarp, see what they think… it’ll be a good opportunity to discuss your use-case with them.

A different suggestion:

Add a section to the definition for “reset” messages that would be sent upon song stop.


definitions are very much optional…
so I (personally) think adding extra settings/functionality to them is not a good idea.

that said, Id say it be fine, for a definition to be able to set the current ‘default’ setting, as this already exists in the UI.

however, this does not solve the underling issue…

imagine your synth allows all parameters to be set via CC.
now one day you have programmed a preset on your synth… (and not saved it :wink: )
the default (or your reset value) you have set on the hapax will NOT be what you want it to be, basically you’ll hit STOP, and suddenly all your synths values will change.

thats why I say, it can only really work when you have recorded automation, since then (by definition) you have already started overriding the synths preset value.

so yeah, there is no perfect solution here… (*)
and you have to be very careful, that the hapax doesn’t start sending out spurious cc messages on stop, which will upset a LOT of users :wink:

(*) unless you have full bi-directional midi, but even that has issues

this is why this topic is one to talk to Squarp about, they are very familiar with these kind of ‘side effects’ and compromises due to all the experience/feedback they have from the pyramid etc.

(as I say though, I think possibly, an exception for cc74/sustain could be made… as its one of the few CCs that actually has a reasonably well defined meaning - that said, my general suggestion does also work for CC74/sustain too… as you’ll be recording it , so it can then default to zero.)

@thetechnobear isn’t that why everything in a definition file is optional?

I agree that the only use case I’ve thought of so far for this CC64 0 to close down sustain on my instruments. Actually, I would also use it to stop recording on my Blackbox sampler.

That said, if we had this ability, it would be up to the musician to use it correctly, like everything else…

exactly… the definitions are really just adding a ‘view’ (and setting some defaults), not really adding functionality.
put another way, users wouldn’t be very happy if they had to create (or edit) a definition file to change some functionality… so adding a reset value in their that could not be changed via the UI would be not popular.

(anyway, I don’t see any material difference between what you call reset vs the existing default value)

thats a bit simplistic… reality is many users do not read manuals, and expect things to ‘just work’ ™ … and in particular, they expect new features to not change existing functionality.
as I pointed out, this is what makes this ‘reset’ a tricky thing to implement.
because 9 out of 10 users will NOT expect the hapax to send CCs when they hit stop… except in very specific circumstances (like sustain)

I get your point. Everyone has a different style.

In the meantime, I may program my BomeBox to send CC64 0 to each of my tone generators. It’s very annoying to have to switch presets all the time on multiple keyboards/synths to stop a tone playing.

@thetechnobear I did in fact program my BomeBox to transmit CC64 0 to all my tone generators, upon song stop. It works very well.

1 Like

@thetechnobear we’ll agree to disagree. If this feature existed, everyone would be free to enter nothing in the relevant definition file section, and the Hapax would then do nothing surprising. Squarp will decide and we’ll all have to live with their decision (I trust their incredible experience with sequencer design!).

In another thread, another Hapaxer is asking for something quite similar. Essentially he’s looking for a reset from pattern to pattern.