Project transition!

As far as I can tell, there is not a way to cross-fade from project A to project B, is that right? I understand that they can play simultaneously, but is there a way to fade one in as the other is faded out?

I would really appreciate any feedback on:

Whether this is possible

Whether there are any hard boundaries to this being possible in the future

Any feasible work arounds, could you far example control the Hapax from an external controller, and assign one knob to increase all of project B track volumes while simultaneously decreasing project A’s track volumes?

Thanks for any info!

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This isn’t possible, as far as I know, but I sent in a feature request for:

Some way to “crossfade” between two projects, possibly by scaling the velocity on all note events in a project, with both projects’ velocity being scaled inversely, as a response to a MIDI CC (or built-in encoder)

Definitely send them an email requesting the feature if you’re interested!

Yeah the dual project structure is more suited to transition than crossfading.

The thing about crossfading is for audio it’s obvious. For midi not so ( that’s why octatrack does audio but not midi)

In midi to change volumes you have to start making assumptions about which cc controls volume … ok I know cc8 is standard but many synths don’t use it !

Also cc’s don’t always work by just increasing from zero to target value ( and vice versa) eg doing this on a cc controlling wave form would be often very undesirable

So I’m guessing it could only work for some CC

I guess you can also use velocity …. But won’t work for cv/gate, or any instruments that you are using that are not velocity sensitive ( or using velocity for gain)

But this also raises a question- why do it on the hapax if you can do it as easily on a mixer which has dedicated controls?

Don’t get me wrong , I like the idea in principle- but I’m not sure how it would work in practice.

… unless these was some complex setup on automation lanes on how they work when cross fading and that’s sounds a bit meh. Certainly not just users hope of it ‘just works’.

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Thank you that’s great, yes I definitely will.

Thanks, this is a really helpful reply. And I have to put my hands up and admit I was deep into envisioning the role Hapax could play in my sets that I hadn’t fully factored in some of these limitations.

I owned an Octatrack a few years ago which I loved but I wasn’t a fan of the midi sequencing. Was planning to get one again in the coming weeks so I’ve been weighing up how the Hapax could fill that void instead. I think cross-fading octatrack scenes is one of its superpowers you don’t really find anywhere else so when I saw the two simultaneous projects on Hapax I couldn’t help myself dreaming it could offer something similar. I think I really need to get my head around the benefits of having two midi projects and see how that would compare to how I used to use my octatrack.

The idea of cross-fading externally actually didn’t occur to me, but I guess then for each transition you need to transition twice? First to transition midi project a into midi project b, and again to externally transition the audio of project a to project b? Maybe not the end of the world but it’s an added layer that I could see confusing me at times.

Hmm no scrap that, I need to give this some thought, there could be an elegant way of doing it that I’m overlooking.

I loved the video btw, really got me excited for hapax in a way the others didn’t :+1:

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yeah, as above the ‘tech head’ in me loves the idea of crossfading … in the general context,
and I love it on the Octatrack :).
I even think cross-fading midi could be used beyond project transitions, as a creative tool…

but the musician in me, fears its potentially solving something in a complicated way.

I mean, the hapax is largely used for multiple synths… no?
so that either means
a) you use a mixer to combine the synths outputs
b) you use a daw/computer with audio interface to combine synths/virtual instruments

in both cases, you have already have a way to do audio crossfades… why complicate it by using midi?

also midi is a bit imprecise… 128 steps (both velocity and 7 bit cc) , for audio thats quite ‘steppy’

also those steps mean, might be different on different synths.

so when you crossfade on a mixer, you use something like a ‘power curve’ , as dB is not linear.
but velocity / cc8 is not necessarily going to do that, it really depends on your synth and even the patch.
usually velocity on a synth keyboard , is set to give you a response that is nice for your keybed and playing style , which is never linear, nor some strict dB relationship.

we then have another ‘factors’ like tracks outputs may change across projects, to different synths…
… and I think if you really dig into it, you’ll just keep hitting these kind of ‘complications’

so, I reckon in practice, for project audio-crossfade, it would require so much tweaking to work, most musicians would just use a mixer that they already are using…

but yeah, the tech head in me loves the idea… its really appealing for creative purposes.
so Id like to see something in this area, but just not quite sure what … e.g. perhaps its even more interesting at pattern level for some automation lanes?
(patterns don’t vary synths target… so might be easier?!)

One thing I miss is the cross fader from my Octatrack

this is not usually done on a sequencer especially one without faders. but you could do it in reaper with midi control input. hey i sell modules that run reaper! and theyre not super expensive. i love reaper as its like a virtual rack of gear with ultra detailed setup and routing ripe as a midi target. you could easily include live input from attached hardware complete with live plugins doing any studio tasks. it makes my live performances sound produced. as much as i want, anyway.

I bought a Hapax to potentially replace my Octatrack because I was tired of being ‘locked in’ to the pattern structure of the latter. I figured if I preferred the Hapax for midi I could get a more basic sequencer for audio. I love scenes and the fader, but the limitation of not being able to edit a pattern that isn’t playing wound up being too large a limiting factor for the way I wanted to be able to perform. Especially as I barely have time for writing music, let alone organising it into sets.

Trouble is, now that I have both it’s clear that the pair are a match made in heaven. Octatrack is the king for audio, but the Hapax is infinitely more capable for midi. I can change patterns on the Octatrack from the Hapax which makes life less complicated (especially good with the follow function in the new firmware), and even trigger the Octatrack sequencer via midi so I can change Octatrack projects on the fly which is a huge win.

The combination of being able to transition seamlessly between midi sequences and still have access to audio cross-fading is perfect for what I want to be able to do. I wasn’t intending on keeping both but I’m really going to struggle to sell one now. If I do though it’s probably the Octatrack that will go - I can live with more basic audio sequencing, and although scenes/ crossfader are extremely fun and playable, there are workarounds for this too. My music is mostly synths sequenced via midi, and Hapax is king for that. I’m still getting used to the work flow, I think the Octatrack work flow comes a little more intuitively for me, but I’d be a bit miffed to go back to the limitations I was facing previously now

Just realised this thread is quite old, hey ho