I updated to 3.22 from 3.20.
In 3.20 step mode and when rec button is pressed, all events in the track zoom would get affected from the editing knobs. In 3.22 all all events in the track get affected regardless of the zoom. Nasty!!!
Please revert this to the previous behaviour. If we want to edit all events in track we ca do this by zooming out to the whole track.
I am really surprised no one noticed that or maybe its only me having this problem.
Will test again with more projects to see if ti was a project specific thing only.
I updated to 3.22 from 3.20.
Affecting the entire track is how it’s actually documented, https://squarp.net/modestep mentions it more than once. Eg
Hold to select the entire track, instead of pressing the first and the last step. For example, hold and rotate 1 to transpose all notes.
I don’t remember when exactly I’ve last used that, but I do remember it only affecting notes on the current page in v2.30 and contrary to how I understood the manual, and also remember being annoyed by that
Whatever the intended behavior, silent behavior changes are nasty and I certainly don’t see anything related in the firmware release notes.
Note that as per the above quote, you can achieve the same by holding the first and the last pad to select the entire page. Requires a bit more finger gymnastics though.
Reading the manual leaves both possibilities open since
“the entire track” means all events in the track
but holding “first and last step” means the current page of the track.
For me its a step back in the functionality and for sure irritating when you are used to work in a certain way (which is actually nice and nobody complains) and something changes without notice or user feedback in the forums.
Actually because of this I have reverted PYRA OS to 3.20 until it gets sorted.
I am really furious like you were but the opposite reason!!!
Yes the manual is a bit vague.
Anyway, Squarp doesn’t have a presence on this forum, so if you want to have it sorted or even confirmed one way or the other, http://squarp.net/contact is the place to go.
yes I know I’ve already contacted them.thx anyway.
So the guys from Squarp came back to me and said I was right about the change and they gave the solution to select the steps that I want to edit!!! Very helpful instruction, to perform finger gymnastic and destroy the pads from pressing them all the time instead of just pressing one button(rec button). Moron tactics!!!
The guys are unbelievable!!! Completely unacceptable!!!
Silent undocumented change and the excuse was that many people asked for it!!! Well i ask all of you then how many?
I am completely furious!!!
I think this behaviour is completely inconsistent along with the copy function without selecting steps in poly editing which copies all notes instead of the one that is being edited. The delete function without selecting steps in poly editing deletes correctly only the edited note.
I am very curious to hear arguments from people that have asked for this kind of lame operation of Pyramid .
I think it’s more logical to make the REC button operate on all steps. That’s also how I understood the manual.
I say ‘more logical’ because there is a good way to select the steps within the current page: just press the step range. There is no way to select all steps in pattern, that’s why you need to press the REC button. If REC selected the current page, how would you edit all steps?
Your own logic works against you. The presses required to select all notes in a pattern was higher in the old version than it is to select all notes of the current page in the new version, because it required either adjusting zoom or switching pages. So the number of button presses overall is reduced on average when taking both operations into account.
It would be one thing if it worked like that, but at maximum zoom-out of /4, one step represents a whole note. So one page can cover maximum of 16 bars in 4/4, but the maximum length of a track is 384 bars, which is worth 24 pages at /4 zoom.
Nah . I don’t think so. I guess it depends on how you use pyramid and which buttons you are talking about. I rarely want to alter events on a whole track and if I want to yes the zooming feature is very handy and easy. If you are talking about the track and velocity /zoom buttons yes you are right but not for the step buttons 1 and 16.
Usually editing involves pages that contain various notes that you want to change length, velocity, transpose etc. Now you have to use three fingers to do this instead of 2 which simply is lame. The same applies when you want to move around notes between tracks with copy paste. Again three fingers. And yes when you perform finger gymnastics you damage more the buttons.
Anyway this is not the core of my argument and not really a big deal.
The big deal is the way this change has happened. Silently without notice and because of some gurus that decided to give you arthritis!!
Yes I agree but statistically the scenario of working on 384 on a machine that supports 9000 events is rare(or maybe useless). Most people work with 4, 8 ,16 or maybe 32 bars. Editing is super easy with the zoom function for these sizes.
I dint see anyone talking about consistency here.
And please don’t get me wrong. I really love pyramid. Its the centre of my midi setup and thats why I am so frustrated with their decision.
Is it so difficult to put an option on how these operations are carried out. There so many options in the settings.
And of course they should ask users before performing changes that affect their workflow which is something which is being formulated throughout the period of learning a machine and becoming comfortable with it. they cannot simply ignore the users in favour of some other users and without even saying a word about it.
So you’re saying it’s easy for others to jump back and forth in zoom and do repeat the same edit on multiple pages, but too hard for you to press two buttons at once? Right.
I don’t know about 384 bars, but I routinely have track lengths well over 16 bars and that has meant that it’s impossible to edit the entire track at once which has been quite painful at times. I didn’t ask for it, but I for one am quite happy about “all” finally really meaning “all” instead of “current page”.
What I think everybody agrees on is that silent changes are unacceptable - when something is silently changed one kinda has to assume it’s an unintended change, ie a regression, one of the nastiest bug types. And if there’s one such change then who knows what else might be lurking there? People do live shows with these things, and unknown changes are really nasty surprises when you’re on stage…
No I am not saying exactly this. you don’t have to jump back and forth. If you want to perform an edit to 32 bars you just have to zoom out entirely once and do the edit twice. In my opinion it ismore convenient to hold the record button only without touching the steps which sometimes can be faulty since it is possible to erase the steps that you are holding if you are not very cautious. And the finger gym is much less this way. It just makes sense to me a lot better this way. And I think I am not alone here.
Anyway I am not trying to persuade everyone to this. SQUARP could easily have given usan option in the settings about the behaviour or maybe have both options using different button combos (use record+2nd for all the track and plain record the current page).
I am also glad that you acknowledge the inconsistency issue of hidden changes.
I on the contrary I am really unhappy that they satisfied this portion of the manual and not the other one implying the current page.
I also prefer the new behavior, I find it more consistent … all means whole track, and anything else is done with range selection.
A user option - sure, but you cannot keep adding options infinitum - there’s already so many.
Also these kind of preferences are notorious for creating bugs/inconsistencies.
I do agree it should have been clearly stated in change log, but it’s easy to forget these things esp. if you view as a bug fix which it seems is what squarp thought this was ( and a few of us here too).
Maybe there are a lot of you and only me here!!
Anyway I’ll live with the new option as my anger starts to fade away:expressionless:
As an example of a change one would want to make on an entire track: if your track is a drum track, with each note triggering a different drum (this is how I most often do my percussion, about 66% of the time with a full drum kit on one track, 33% of the time with a single drum per track). But then say you want for a specific trigger pattern to switch to a different drum permanently (again, this is fairly common). So you want to select all instances of that note throughout the entire song and transpose them.
Or, I mean, the MOST common use, surely. To simply transpose an entire track up or down in pitch, permanently. I’m sure I’m not the only one for whom this is a quite common operation.
That said, I do agree with you that it’s a nontrivial behavior change that would definitely have bugged me if I depended on the old behavior often. And frankly, I can recall different times when I’ve expected both of those behaviors and been a bit confused, thinking I must have been crazy or misremembering. And i really don’t love the “just hold pads 1 & 16 while you perform the edit” solution. That’s quite the finger stretch, especially when by definition you have to be making other changes simultaneously. Hope you weren’t planning on using that left hand for anything else while you did this! Buuut ultimately this is actually the more logical solution, I have to admit.
This sequencer is in many ways a dream bit of kit, but in other ways something of a nightmare. A stress dream, at least. Like dreaming that I’m back in college and guess what I have a final exam today and no clue how ancient Egyptian planar geometric stoicism even works or when I enrolled in that class. Oh and would you look at that, I forgot to put on pants again.
The sequencer is a constant source of anxiety for me, is my point.
I really don’t want to step back into arguments about this but I have to say this.
There are options like for the play pad behaviour or for the touchpad to set off. These options do not affect the usage of pyramid, they just shape it in way that is comfortable for the users. So another option for the issue discussed is imperative for the happiness of all users.
Since as you say there are so many options which for sure not all of them are of much use to everybody then I can conclude that one more option for an issue that is so critical to some of us should have been addressed through the existence of just one more option. Wouldn’t hurt anyone.
As far as the introduction of bugs related to an option like this, seems to me as highly unlikely to happen.
As far as the inconsistency that you are mentioning, the existing behaviour of Pyramid has one or two critical inconsistencies in its behaviour and in my opinion one of them is this.
The Pyramid Sequencer is a dream come true for me in the hardware universe. Software is is much more less stressful. The selection of steps is at least irritating. They should have thought it in different way in my opinion. I would much prefer to select steps and take my fingers off and the selection would remain ready to be edited. Cancelling the selection could be have been performed with a press of another button. However PYRAMID is the best hardware sequencer I’ve used in terms of speed and immediacy.