I have been wracking my brain, trying to get ANY midi channel to handle 2 synths, “properly”. I have tried every port. But anytime I have more than one device on that midi track. I get signal bleed from one device to the other. **even when track is muted. Is there any online resource available that explains how to appropriately route devices? I’ve searched all YouTube videos. Some show larger hubs and even a “Midi patch bay” program. Which I am unable to find. Appreciate any guidance.
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midi bleed? interesting. ive never encountered that myself.
2 synths on separate channels i presume? are you new to midi? thats what i call jumping in!
research midi in out and thru, and midi channels 1-16. they all contain unique midi commands unless you send the same commands on multiple channels.
youre really close! try setting your devices to separate receiving channels and go in one and thru to the next one’s in. setting channels is usually done within the midi section of your devices menu but please read the manual that came with your device. some devices do it different ie behringer often has a dip switch on the rear of the synth.
what devices are you using?
Current set up
Elektron DN2 => MIDI channel A
ARytm2 => MIDI channel B
Hydrasynth => MIDI channel C
Vector and Juno DS => MIDI TRS D via cme midi thru box
Neuizeit Drop as Host on USB Device channel (far right)
NOT CONNECTED (due to issues and not wanting to add traffic)
Roland TR-8S & 404mk2
Tonverk & Tempera. **will be receiving Future Retro 777 & Conductive Labs terrain synth soon.
Bleed occurs on channels I have multiple devices on even when assigned different channel (ie midi host situation from above)
I’ve seen videos like Mr Tuna who have MASSIVE setups running on Hapax, but they don’t really get int- how they route successfully.
Does one need a MRCC type device? Cuz my midi hub and Overhub (Forgot to mention my obverhub doesn’t get reading by Hapax), don’t work as they should in this situation.
could you please describe ‘midi bleed’ to me? what are the effects of midi bleed?
your devices are all set to a unique midi channel? each of the outputs: A, B, C, D are full midi busses ie they all carry 16 channels of midi potentially. so you can connect up to 16 unique midi devices as long as you ‘daisy chain’ them going from hapax to device 1 midi in and them from device 1 midi thru to device 2 midi in and so on until you have all 16 devices connected. *there is nuance to doing it like this and some dont prefer to do it this way because of micro delays introduced (theoretically).
so you could have up to 64 midi devices hooked up to those 4 hardware din/3.5mm plugs already. if you use usb, you have 16 more midi busses giving you 16 midi channels per buss. this is enough for 256 additional mid devices. of course hapax has only 16 tracks so only roughly 16 midi devices could make a sound at once, well, 32 if you use both projects at the same time. but there is an additional reason for all the busses: MPE midi which requires all 16 channels per midi device to achieve the level of expression they advertise. so in this case, you could open up 16 MPE midi devices. there are other ways to put more standard midi devices in motion using more than 32 tracks: the midi fx allow you to send identical midi command streams to other devices simultaneously, for layering purposes i suppose.
most people will buy a 1 midi input and 16 midi output splitter so theoretically you would bypass any slop introduced by using the in>thru method. but the beauty is that even with micro delays introduced by the daisy chain method, hapax allows you to offset the midi by channel on all busses by +/- 500ms which is up to 0.5 seconds. and you can also do the same to midi beat clock per buss. hapax is really a wonderful hardware midi sequencer with much that simply didnt exist prior, as far as im aware.
there is also a device by iconnectivity i believe that will allow you to turn 10 of the 16 busses sent over usb into 5 pin din jacks if thats how youd like to do it. timing would theoretically be improved over the daisy chain method since usb is much higher bandwidth and therefore all the midi commands will be much closer together, which is the primary concern of using the daisy chain method of distributing 16 channels of midi data down the same 5 pin din cable. too much traffic on one buss and timing gets sloppy potentially. not an issue with usb midi *nearly as much
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There is a computer behind the scenes in Mr Tuna’s shed with a substantial amount of custom MIDI transformation scripts and routing to make his setup work the way it does.
You could run such setup with Hapax + MRCC, or even just with Hapax + some merge and thru boxes, but you will most likely hit many walls that way that will force you to lower the desired functionality expectations.
Regarding your issues - you must use correct terminology to get help - ports, channels, tracks… define what you mean by a MIDI bleed. You must understand and configure the target devices so they use only the channels dedicated to them. RYTM in default configuration is likely using all 16 channels for example (which is fine unless you add additional devices on the same port). Plus some messages are not channel specific - they affect all devices on that port, despite each being set to different channel.
Firstly, thank you for taking the time to help. I’m only 2 years in on my hardware journey with a grueling clinical schedule. So I pour all my spare time and energy into this. I appreciate the knowledge and patience.
When I got (what I am probably mislabeling as) midi signal “bleed”, it occurred two times once with the 2 Elektron boxes of mention, while both being on same Midi port via hub, but separate channels on Hapax. **I was unaware of daisy chaining, so I’m hoping that can help in this case. I would program a pattern on either device and it would trigger on both only when both were on hub and not when they were on individual midi ports.
Second time I had same results but with any combination of synths on hub. Instrument definitions didn’t help, plus Juno DS doesn’t seem to have one. But whatever would be programmed on either instrument channel, would play on other instrument even if I had that channel muted, sometimes. And yes I had each synth assigned to same midi port, but “listening” to different channel to be programmed (1-16).
I will give a few different configs while daisy chaining the boxes and synths, since this is the method that works and I haven’t tried it. Thanks for the info!
Yes. I saw the computer running midi channel info, so I was wondering if that was the only attainable method or if anyone had a different approach. I tried as best I can to articulate what I meant by midi “bleed” and some of what I was experiencing is explained by your insight. I did have right channels assigned to rytm and dn2. It was pretty deep (As a newbie) programming each track to correspondence on Hapax. And as I mentioned. When they were on individual midi ports and instrument channel, all functioned as I expected. I just hadn’t tried daisy chaining. Learning that messages affect all devices on channel helps to know. As my thinking had the instrument definitions helping separate midi info (Which I am clear;y wrong about).
I’ll also look at merge boxes. Thanks for the input.
the only possible explanation(s) for both (multiple) midi devices sounding on a single buss, no matter if they are used daisy chain or with a breakout box is if they are set to receive on the same midi channel. the only other explanation is if one or both (all) is set to ‘omni’ receive mode which means accept midi input from all channels. EDIT: or if you are sending the same midi commands on more than one midi channel or all channels
usually AI will provide basic information about midi on a specific device complete with step by step instructions on how to attain the state of operation that you desire. AI has been known to be wrong but either you didnt ask the question in the right way or it searched and found incorrect information. but AI is a great place to start when you need midi explanations, assuming you dont want to read the manual. i use AI myself and it solves the vast majority of my problems or at the least, sets me on the right pathway to the right info and gives me places to look and threads to read or even manuals that i hate to crack open LOL! 
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Hadn’t looked at Omni setting which would explain for Elektron stuff. But I do have new things to try and if push comes to shove, I was considering AI as well.
midi merge boxes are only useful in your case if you want to combine input to hapax from 2 or more controlling keyboards or keyboard and midi fader unit or something like launchpad etc. do you need to have every keyboard you own operate as input to hapax? it seems a luxury and unnecessary but at least with 16 midi busses over usb you could do that with the help of a computer and lots of midi i/o for the computer. usually though, musicians use a single keyboard for input to the sequencer. but you may find it useful to combine a midi fader with keyboard input, if they are not part of the same controller. in this case, a merger would make sense. i use ‘midi solutions’ merge devices which just work and are ancient and may be found cheaply. but there are many solutions. some standalone, some need a computer. of course hapax has 2 midi inputs so you may already be covered. some devices also internally merge their own data output with midi data present at the midi in jack. (like my peavey pc1600x)
Meant to respond direct;y and now my reply won’t post. Currently using a Drop in conjunction with Hapax (zero problems with the drop other than its very dense to program). I’ve decided I’ll probably go with the MRCC device as a solution. Not programming notes via external keyboard at the moment, will most likely use Hydra when that happens. Going to try daisy chain solution, though my time for the night is limited.
id love a drop. its pretty expensive tho! you got some great gear. what style do you do?
Also remember, there is the OUTPUT FX. Most often when I am pulling my hair out over Hapax, it’s because there is a FX I am not cognizant of doing that. I don’t get it why the FX button LED doesn’t provide any feedback.
Drop is an absolute beast. It takes a while to program. And as I mentioned, my day job schedule along with the dense equipment I need to learn well. Keep me from finishing music. But to answer, I make house and techno. Deeper and harder edged.
I am definitely lucky to have my set up. Need more luck on time management. Haha
Thanks, I’ll keep this in mind for the future!