Scenario:-
New track. Time signature 4/4. Length 2 bars.
Enter some notes.
Switch to 12/8 time signature to do some triplet work.
Track length is still 2 bars of course.
Press play - second bar is not played and is not visible in piano role.
Change track length to 4 bars.
Now 2nd bar is played and is shown in piano role and can be edited. .
Switch back to 4/4 time signature.
Track length is still at 4 bars but there are 2 blank, silent bars at the end.
Changing track length back to 2 bars fixes things.
If I understood you correctly, then no, this is not a bug. This is how time signatures work.
The âupperâ number changes the number of notes in one bar, great for adding triplets!
When you change the âlowerâ number, it changes the note lenght and there for changes the notes already inputted and the whole structure.
âBy default the time signatureâs lower number is set on 4, which means âquarter noteâ. It can also be set on 2 âhalf noteâ, 8 âeighth noteâ or 16 âsixteenth noteââ
Instead of changing the /4 to /8, just change the track zoom level. I believe that is what you are trying to achieve.
You may find it not intuitive if you are expecting a step sequencer.
1 bar of 4/4. Means 4 quarter notes.
When you now go to 4/8. It means 4 eight notes. Those eight notes put together are the first 2 quarter notes of the previous setup. I find that amazingly simple and intuitive.
I wouldnât know what to expect of a step sequencer, Iâve never used oneâŚ
I suppose the real problem is around the triplet workflow and expecting 12/8 and 4/4 tracks to run for equal time because of that - âdo what I mean damnitâ
Iâll be the first the admit to not having fully wrapped my head around the zoom level yet.
A 4/4 1bar in 1x zoom is 4 âstepsâ in STEP mode. 4x zoom would mean it would be 16 steps
I strongly dont recommend people to mess with the âlowerâ number to add triplets. This is not what you want. Just change the âupperâ number and zoom to a level that gives you the resolution you want.
Yeah Iâve read the triplet topic, thatâs exactly what I was referring to with âtriplet workflowâ. Zoom (like many other things in Pyramid) are perfectly obvious when in 4/4, but using 3/4 signature for adding triplets just doesnât even begin to compute in my head, intuition tells me (and others it seems) to use 12/8. Which doesnât work that well in the end, which is why we have this topic
like I said in the Triplet workflow topic, in terms of music theory, having to change the time signature to add just a triplet in a simple meter is a nonsense (music score is still in 4/4 but can have triplets in it)
this is why I prefer the âoffset methodâ as a workaround
but the method described by @joosep works too
that being said, I think that what is pointed here by @TomV (in the OP) is the fact that the pattern length is modified
and this is a slightly different issueâŚ
(you can also check your SETTINGS / MISC / SIGNATURE / POLYRHYTMS or POLYMETERS)
so I would agree with @joosep, if you want absolutely use the âchange the TimeSignature methodâ in order to add triplets in simple meters, be careful with that :
As The Loudest mentions, my point is indeed that the track length is modified incorrectly such that the second of my 2 bars disappears if I change the time signature from 4/4 to 12/8.
Triplets are a distraction here. I donât expect half my track to disappear just because I change the time signature.
It does also seem that Pyramid treats 12/8 in a different way to normal musical notation. A 12/8 time signature means a bar with 4 quarter notes each of which can be a triplet. I think Pyramid interprets 12/8 to involve 8th notes which is rather unfortunate.
If you write a piece in 4/4 with a quarter note on every beat then change the time signature to 12/8 a pianist would play both versions identically.
If Pyramid correctly interpreted compound time signatures, it would make entering triplets for a single beat much, much easier.
4/4 time signature 1 bar = 4 quarter notes.
Change to 4/8 = 4 eighth notes.
Those 4 eighth notes addes togeter is HALF the length of the original 4/4 track. So yes. To get the SAME track length you would now have to double the length.
Back to triplets for a second though, if youâll permit me -
It would seem reasonable for Pyramid to recognize compound time signatures like 12/8. Then it could know that zooming in should reveal 3 notes making up each quarter note rather than 4. This would help enormously with triplet entry and be much better than re-inventing the wheel with some new âtriplet modeâ that doesnât map well onto standard musical notation.
In this mode, the âupperâ number changes the âbeatâ, length stays the same.
So your 12/8 would result in a 12 eighth notes in a bar, and that bar would be 2 times shorter than /4 bar.
In this mode, the âupperâ number will change the length of the bar, âbeatâ stays the same.
So your 12/8 would result in 1,5x the length of the normal 4/4 bar.
yes! Thatâs why I said in the other topic that the problem is the GRID
if we could switch between a 16-steps grid and a 12-steps grid we could have all the layers to program simple AND compound meters easily (and without changing the Time Signature)
keep in mind that the two methods discussed here (joosepâs one and mine) are workarounds
not a real correct implementation of âtriplets in a simple meterâ
in all DAWS the grid can adapt to simple and compound subdivisions, and you never have to change your TS for that
yeah @TomV thatâs what I meant when I said above that you should check your polymeters/polyrhythms settingsâŚ
depending on your settings it can ends up with very different results with this methodâŚ
Id agree changing the denominator is âoddâ , but I think is pretty logical when you consider how things work with polyrhythms and other tracks and their TS - it gets complex quite quickly, I think generally squarp have done well.
back to triplets and generally âscoringâ on the pyramid that would make things easier.
a) bars staring on âpage startâ ,without this it gets confusing fast
b) fractional note lengths
really the only reason to switch time sigs for triplets is to get the note length right, as we can already do position with offset⌠if they allowed us to enter 1/3, 2/3 etc , we could do it without switching TS - also would be cleared, when coming back to look at stored note lengths.
(pyramid stores them fractionally anyway, which is why the TS trick works, so its a ui issue only)
b) triplet grid
this would help entering a lot, perhaps this could be on zoom, i.e. use the bottom row for triplet zoom values.
in fairness I dont do a lot of editing on the pyramid , mainly due to (a) , I tend to just (live) record into it⌠and then Id probably edit in a DAW if doing anything other than âtidying upââŚ
but I can see easily switching to a triplet grid, could add an interesting dimension.
Thanks all for the informative replies, and especially to @joosep joosep for emphasizing that 12/8 in Pyramid world is totally different from an 12/8 time signature in the rest of the musical world.
Unlike @thetechnobear I bought a Pyramid specifically hoping I could exclusively edit without using a computer. It does most things pretty well but triplets are very fiddly. Quite a deficiency considering how all pervasive triplets are in many kinds of music.
In musical notation, 12/8 means 12 eighth notes or 4 dotted quarter notes. It doesnât mean 4 quarter notes, each of which can be an eighth note triplet. They are grouped in threes though, as you imply
What this guy want is a 4/4 bar to be the same length as a 12/8 bar.
Set your pyramid to be in polyrhythm, not in polymeters, and then play both your tracks.
It is as simple as this.
